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People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

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Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#91

It looks like the homeless population has remained fairly steady over the same period of time that reported poop incidents has quintupled. That leads to two likely conclusions: Either people are reporting it more often than before (Has it become easier to report such incidents?) or more homeless are deciding (as much as it can be called a decision) to poop publicly, maybe a further symbol of spite for a society that…

Could there possibly be more than one reason?

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#92

I have a modest proposal to end this problem. There are too many homeless in San Francisco. Additionally, California has too few wolves. I propose that we release wolves into the streets of San Francisco once per month. Only the strong will be able to evade the wolves and the weak and sick will be eaten. This will lower the homeless population will simultaneously helping the wolf population rebound to record numbers.

Increasing your salty standing! I like your proposal. We have coyotes, wolves can’t be far behind, no?

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#93
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure where "one" came from, there are many of them around portland, concentrated in problem areas. there is typically poop and needles around the toilets (which also have sharps containers that are emptied regularly), and neighboring businesses still get hit fairly heavily. anecdote time: i had one a block from where i was living, and a block from a grocery store - while checking out, a very desperate person char…

I got the number from the website you linked. However, using Google Maps, I found 4. I'm not sure how many bathrooms you'd normally allocate per person, but I imagine the number of homeless and those out and about would necessitate more than that. How many bathrooms per person are in the typical office building? Should the number of these loos not similarly match the homeless population? Also, how is a timer in a bat…

the portland loo website linked reports that there are 18 in portland, so still not sure where you got the number one from (see faq at https://portlandloo.com/faq/), and a quick search on google maps shows more (simply entering "portland loo" on maps.google.com shows a lot more than 4). most of them are concentrated where homeless are, as well as homeless services (that, you know, have restrooms as well).

i'm not sure how long the timer is, maybe you can try one and let us know?

my point was that even when restrooms are provided, there are still large problems with defecation. my favorite instances were people pooping on the building housing the (open and available) restrooms, instead of entering the building in a small 1/4 block park - the whole park is now fenced off (there is a Portland Loo one block away, not to mention the bathrooms in the building that was being defecated on - now those restrooms are closed for all).

editing to add that a previous reply also talked about being able to choose between other public restrooms and the portland loo, so not sure why you would think there are no restrooms available.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#94
post #86

I have a general theory related to this this article. Disenfranchised people do not take care of the society around them. Rightfully so. If my society doesn't seem to give a shit about me, why should I give a shit about it? If this theory holds true, then graffiti, vandalism, pooping on the streets, and so on, are all symptoms of disenfranchisement. Conversely, go to a neighborhood of homeowners, and look at how well…

I completely agree with this statement. Autonomy and a feeling of ownership are essential for most people to feel content. My go to example is a guy running a food truck/burger stand vs a guy working at Wendy's (making the same take home as the burger stand guy). The guy running his own burger stand can get up everyday and take pride in making the best hamburger he can make. But for the guy working at Wendy's, making…

I think we’re in general agreement but I would counter that it’s possible to feel a sense of ownership even at Wendy’s. It all comes down to how the work is distributed. For example, if the manager tells a worker “you are entirely responsible for the grill. We’re counting on you to take care of it,” I think we’re providing the opportunity for the potentially transformative experience of ownership.

Owning your own business is obviously a more powerful version of the same phenomenon, though.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#95
post #35

That chart tells the tale. It's quite astounding how it's climbed from ~5,500 incidents in 2011 to ~28,000 in 2018. Keep in mind this is _reported_ incidents. It's like it's been normalized. No joke. In a residential (western) neighborhood (i.e. not SOMA) within a month I saw evidence of human feces twice [it's not like I'm out and about all day long]. Once on a set of steps, the other someone squatting behind some b…

Is it easier to report now? Would not be surprised if somewhere between 2011 and 2018, an app was released that lets you quickly report human shit on the sidewalk.

It is certainly easier to report now. The 311 mobile app for San Francisco launched in 2013. "SnapCrap," a 3rd party app focused on poop, launched in 2018.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#97

I have a modest proposal to end this problem. There are too many homeless in San Francisco. Additionally, California has too few wolves. I propose that we release wolves into the streets of San Francisco once per month. Only the strong will be able to evade the wolves and the weak and sick will be eaten. This will lower the homeless population will simultaneously helping the wolf population rebound to record numbers.

What about wolf poop?

Initially wolves will prosper as the food source is abundant. The net change in poop will go slightly up. Adding wolves to the biosphere will make it more diverse and green. See Yellowstone. Eventually though wolves will consume all of the available resources, birth rates will fall, and migration will start. The poop will lessen. At some point we’ll reach a stasis where the wolf, homeless, and poop is in equilibrium.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#98
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's strictly better than the status quo? Given the choice between taking a crap in public and leaving a turd on the sidewalk vs. taking a crap in public and having it flushed how is the former preferable to the latter? The unfortunately reality is that creating a private space for relieving oneself is regularly abused as other commenters have pointed out. It's an instance of hostile design 1, but one that is…

The former is preferable because you are providing a disservice to the community that will not allow you dignity, even though they can most obviously afford it.

Counterpoint- "the community that will not allow you dignity" is not a homogenous entity. The city of San Francisco contains multitudes, many of whom are compassionate individuals who take active measures to help those on the streets. By pooping on the sidewalk / in front of City Hall / etc., one indiscriminately targets both those who are compassionate and those who aren't.

Furthermore, one isn't likely to create a community that does allow dignity for all, without first winning the hearts and minds of the less-than-compassionate members of the public. And one isn't likely to win those people over by pooping on their doorstep.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#99
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco alone is spending $50k per homeless person in San Francisco, on top of state and federal benefits. Are you going red in the face because we aren't spending $100k? If $100k doesn't solve the problem should we spend $200k? How much?

That's a stupid stat that's obviously wrong and offensive to everyone who works on these issues in SF, I can't imagine why people keep parroting it. If you spend $100k and lift 9/10 people out of homelessness, that terrible math shows you spent $100k per homeless person.

The amount if money spent is excessive because it is not working. If we spent 10% more would it help? If we spent 10% less would it hurt?

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#100
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I don't understand. I live in DC. There's plenty of homeless people. I see them every day. But there's very little pooping in the street. Likewise in NYC. Homeless people? Sure. Poop in the street? Not so much. Neither place, in my experience, has an abundance of public bathrooms. There's almost none that are truly public, like a building specifically with a bathroom for the public to use. Most fast food…

One theory is that the abundance of corner store plastic bags served street people as disposable poop receptacles. With the bag ban the street poop increased.

The graph in the article shows a pretty steady upward trend in the number of poop reports. There's no real spike corresponding to the bag ban.
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