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People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

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Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#81

Post by whalesalad »

imgabe wrote: post #73
smadge wrote: post #47

Pooping is pretty high up on the hierarchy of needs. Higher than social norms. People are going to poop, sleep, eat, etc wether or not a dignified way to perform these functions is available. Solution: provide a dignified way to perform life necessities.

Here's what I don't understand. I live in DC. There's plenty of homeless people. I see them every day. But there's very little pooping in the street. Likewise in NYC. Homeless people? Sure. Poop in the street? Not so much. Neither place, in my experience, has an abundance of public bathrooms. There's almost none that are truly public, like a building specifically with a bathroom for the public to use. Most fast food…

Density of mental illness and a relaxed environment to do drugs and be weird.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#82

Post by baddox »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #52

Just build the damn public toilets everywhere, make them free and clean and almost nobody but a small number of the craziest people will poop at the streets. If we had to choose just a single thing a state should solve this is it - the most fundamental and unconditional yet simple need everybody has - a way to defecate comfortably whenever and wherever and in a city they are, regardless to how much money they have. T…

I agree that there should be plenty of public toilets, but I also fear you may underestimate how small the number of those "craziest" people there are in certain concentrated areas in San Francisco.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#83

Post by nostrademons »

kaycebasques wrote: post #38

I have a general theory related to this this article. Disenfranchised people do not take care of the society around them. Rightfully so. If my society doesn't seem to give a shit about me, why should I give a shit about it? If this theory holds true, then graffiti, vandalism, pooping on the streets, and so on, are all symptoms of disenfranchisement. Conversely, go to a neighborhood of homeowners, and look at how well…

> There's a noticeable difference between homeowner and renter neighborhoods. And it's not an income level thing.

I'm actually not sure of this, and it comes from living in the Bay Area. Over the last 8 years, we've seen a large increase in the number of high-income families who are renting, largely because of our screwed-up property markets where a condo that rents for $3K/month might have a PITA of $8K/month if you buy it. We're even starting to get the phenomena of millionaire renters, people who could pass the accredited investor test and yet still don't own their own home.

And I've noticed that when rental areas gentrify, they get nicer. The apartments are more well-kept; there's less junk on streets and balconies; less loitering; nice shops spring up with clean (but often sterile or artificial) interiors.

I think it really is about the money. When richer tenants move in, landlords and property managers have more money for repairs & landscaping. The tenants may not be able to afford a home, but they can certainly afford someone to cart away their couch. They spend more money in the local area, which means that shop owners have more disposable income to hire people for cleaning & repairs.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#84

Post by the_economist »

The city of San Francisco provides homeless people with $520/month in cash, via an ATM card that refills on the 1st of the month.

They give away $24 million a year in cash.

It's a genuinely good idea to provide assistance to the homeless, but it should be in the form of Care Not Cash and given away equally across the state. Otherwise, you are funding a drug demand epidemic and likely creating incentives for people with drug problems from around the Bay Area to move here for the cash.

I filed a FOIA with the city to get data on the total cash given away.

http://www.disclosures.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CAAP-d...

http://www.disclosures.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CAPI-d...

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#85

Post by baddox »

henryfjordan wrote: post #14
jcims wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that shit on the Market St sidewalk in broad daylight are not doing so because they were looking for a restroom and ran out of time. There’s a little more going on.

If you've been told "no, you cannot poop in our bathroom because you are homeless" at every restaurant/business in the city, would you bother looking for a bathroom the next time you had to shit? Why bother trying to have dignity if the world doesn't want to let you have any?

The fact that they're also often covered in blood and open sores and surrounded by previously- or currently-used needles is another indicator that perhaps the availability of public bathrooms is not the primary problem.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#86

Post by learc83 »

kaycebasques wrote: post #38

I have a general theory related to this this article. Disenfranchised people do not take care of the society around them. Rightfully so. If my society doesn't seem to give a shit about me, why should I give a shit about it? If this theory holds true, then graffiti, vandalism, pooping on the streets, and so on, are all symptoms of disenfranchisement. Conversely, go to a neighborhood of homeowners, and look at how well…

I completely agree with this statement. Autonomy and a feeling of ownership are essential for most people to feel content. My go to example is a guy running a food truck/burger stand vs a guy working at Wendy's (making the same take home as the burger stand guy).

The guy running his own burger stand can get up everyday and take pride in making the best hamburger he can make. But for the guy working at Wendy's, making the best hamburger he can make isn't his job. His job is to follow the Wendy's standards to the letter, and make the exact same hamburger everyday. If he does his job well, he is essentially acting like a hamburger producing robot. For most people, that will never be fulfilling.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#87

Post by dfischer »

kaycebasques wrote: post #70
dfischer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has a lot of assumptions. You can argue the other way with having a sense of ownership and being responsible is what leads to higher quality in your surroundings. Something something, fix broken windows.

I can see that. From personal experience, when I’ve been given the opportunity to own something, such as a project at work, I found a sense of pride in it that I wasn’t expecting. So I am suggesting that providing people the chance to own something can be a transformative experience.

A chance to "own" something is a very deep iceberg. Ownership needs to consider a lot of things from an economic perspective, a rights perspective (law), society, and so on.

Basically, I guess I'm just saying – it's really complicated and just concluding giving away resources is missing the forest for the trees.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#88

Post by mirimir »

smadge wrote: post #47

Pooping is pretty high up on the hierarchy of needs. Higher than social norms. People are going to poop, sleep, eat, etc wether or not a dignified way to perform these functions is available. Solution: provide a dignified way to perform life necessities.

As bayareanative just said, just provide compostable bags, and dumpsters for collecting them. And simple public urinals.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#89

Post by chrisdhoover »

conanbatt wrote: post #64
qwerty456127 wrote: post #52

Just build the damn public toilets everywhere, make them free and clean and almost nobody but a small number of the craziest people will poop at the streets. If we had to choose just a single thing a state should solve this is it - the most fundamental and unconditional yet simple need everybody has - a way to defecate comfortably whenever and wherever and in a city they are, regardless to how much money they have. T…

Even private toilets are disgusting when they service that population. I'd like to see you push a mentally ill person from pooping into the street into the heroine-needle ridden prostitution hub of a public toilet. Hell, I see the prostitution happen in front of city hall, where there is a childrens playground in open daylight!

The slave hysteria and general illiberal views by the government shut down the web sites that allowed professionals control over their business. Pros became independent and prostitution was moved inside.

Now a girl has to hustle on the street where it is dangerous.

Re: People are pooping more than ever on the streets of San Francisco

#90

Post by kaycebasques »

nostrademons wrote: post #83
kaycebasques wrote: post #38

I have a general theory related to this this article. Disenfranchised people do not take care of the society around them. Rightfully so. If my society doesn't seem to give a shit about me, why should I give a shit about it? If this theory holds true, then graffiti, vandalism, pooping on the streets, and so on, are all symptoms of disenfranchisement. Conversely, go to a neighborhood of homeowners, and look at how well…

> There's a noticeable difference between homeowner and renter neighborhoods. And it's not an income level thing. I'm actually not sure of this, and it comes from living in the Bay Area. Over the last 8 years, we've seen a large increase in the number of high-income families who are renting, largely because of our screwed-up property markets where a condo that rents for $3K/month might have a PITA of $8K/month if you…

I think my comment about controlling for income level stands. We need to compare your gentrified renting neighborhood to a homeowner neighborhood at the same income level.
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