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Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

bbc.com

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Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#161

Post by JohnFen »

agumonkey wrote: post #148
paulmd wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Ferrari is meant to be ostentatious _and_ a great car (not withstanding pratcicality or cost). Absolutely not. Ferraris are renowned for being shop queens/needing absurdly frequent servicing, which probably needs to be done at an official dealership. Also, often you need to remove the motor to do basic service (the car is designed for this). eg see discussions in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledin…

A Ferrari is still in another world of sport vehicles. You can't find a sport sedan to be better than a Ferrari.

> You can't find a sport sedan to be better than a Ferrari.

"Better" is a subjective term. A sport sedan is better than a Ferrari if what you need is a sport sedan. A different sportscar may be better than a Ferrari if what you want is something that requires less maintenance (or so I hear, I know nothing about sportscars.)

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#162

Post by JohnFen »

saiya-jin wrote: post #43
okket wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-

A great car can be a car that simply puts a smile on your face due to sheer engagement and fun of driving it. It stirs your passions. And Ferrari here delivers. Practicality, costs etc. doesn't enter the equation at all.

That's an odd metric, as it would only apply to people who love cars rather than people who use cars for practical purposes.

I don't think I've ever driven or ridden in a car that actually put a smile on my face (and I've ridden in several very high-end cars, including Ferraris). But that's to be expected, as I'm not a car guy.

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#163

Post by JohnFen »

dmix wrote: post #110
neogodless wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... removable batteries?! I jest, but my best hope for a stagnant market is competition on merits that we really want, and less so for the whizz-bang features that attract attention without improving our lives. I've got a used Nexus 6P with a dying battery. I don't know of any improvements in newer phones I need (except security updates!) but I'm torn whether I want to learn how to replace the battery and risk dama…

Why did batteries stop being replaceable again? I'm guessing it makes the design of the phone circuitry easier? You don't have to make the case removable? The idea that it forces you to buy a new phone never seemed like a good reason to me.

> Why did batteries stop being replaceable again?

Because it reduces the cost of production.

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#164

Post by JohnFen »

jmull wrote: post #116
dmix wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did batteries stop being replaceable again? I'm guessing it makes the design of the phone circuitry easier? You don't have to make the case removable? The idea that it forces you to buy a new phone never seemed like a good reason to me.

Phone batteries are replaceable. Just not directly by end-users (well, not most end-users). There are design tradeoffs to make the batteries user-replaceable. E.g., the batteries are going to need a casing and socket that make them OK for users to handle and replace. The phone's going to need additional casing pieces, latches, and seals, etc. The phone's going to be a little bigger, heavier and more expensive. Maybe…

> Maybe not a great tradeoff for something needed once every 2-3 years.

The case for user-replaceable batteries isn't just to be able to replace them when they wear out. It's also to be able to carry a spare or two for when you want to use the device for an extended period of time. (No, external power banks don't really address this use case).

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#165

Post by JohnFen »

jmull wrote: post #146
rchaud wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call "design tradeoffs" is what consumers call "basic features". I can't think of a single phone before the iPhone that had non-replaceable batteries. Samsung and LG had replacement slots on their flagships all the way up to 2014/15. You had someone a 2014 LG G3 today, and I doubt anyone would complain about the weight or the size, especially when the top-line iPhone has a 6.5 inch screen. > Maybe not a grea…

> ...what consumers call "basic features" Consumers are the ones who have insisted — with their wallets — that they prefer phones without user-swappable batteries.

I think that's a stretch. I don't think that consumers insisted on this at all. I think that they were simply willing to put up with it.

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#166

Post by JohnFen »

the-pigeon wrote: post #63
sandworm101 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> They've made every size of phone between a stamp and a tablet. There's nothing left to do. Really? My dream phone doesn't exist yet. I want a phone that is reliable, that lasts more than a few days on a single charge. I want one with two USB connections. I want one with a proper headphone jack, and a speaker that is loud enough to hear properly while driving (without a mount). For these features I am willing to tr…

Why do you want your phone charge to last more than a day? Can't you just charge it while you sleep?

I would love a phone that I didn't have to charge every day. My life is too full of stuff that I have to remember to charge frequently as it is. Less of that would be great.

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#167

Post by JohnFen »

freehunter wrote: post #71
misterprime wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sleeping in the middle of nowhere to enjoy some stargazing perhaps? Stuck in an airport overnight? Long term local power outage? There are nice things about long lasting batteries.

And for all of those things, external battery packs exist that you can carry with you. To anyone who complains that they won't be happy until the perfect device exists that meets all their needs and nothing they don't and doesn't need adapters or dongles to do it: I still use serial cables at least once a month. Do you hear me complaining that I can't find a laptop that includes a serial port? No. Because I recognize…

> To anyone who complains that they won't be happy until the perfect device exists that meets all their needs and nothing they don't and doesn't need adapters or dongles to do it

I think the point of frustration is that phones used to address most or all of these needs, and now they don't. So it can clearly be done.

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#168

Post by tooop »

agumonkey wrote: post #148
paulmd wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Ferrari is meant to be ostentatious _and_ a great car (not withstanding pratcicality or cost). Absolutely not. Ferraris are renowned for being shop queens/needing absurdly frequent servicing, which probably needs to be done at an official dealership. Also, often you need to remove the motor to do basic service (the car is designed for this). eg see discussions in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledin…

A Ferrari is still in another world of sport vehicles. You can't find a sport sedan to be better than a Ferrari.

I doubt that anyone who can buy/wants a Ferrari is choosing between it and a sports sedan (M series, AMG series, RS series etc.). It is between Mclaren/Lamborghini/Ferrari and which one is the best depends on personal preference really (looks, are you going to track etc.).

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#169

Post by moftz »

neogodless wrote: post #100
oliwarner wrote: post #53

There are a few ways of looking at this. Most of the more engineery-types are pointing out the inevitability of failure, the challenges trying to find a good enough substrate to mount a touchscreen stack on, and trying to protect an exposed external hinge from impact, and all that material engineering science stuff that's really clever... But well besides the point. I can't even rationalise why anybody wants a foldin…

Uh... removable batteries?! I jest, but my best hope for a stagnant market is competition on merits that we really want, and less so for the whizz-bang features that attract attention without improving our lives. I've got a used Nexus 6P with a dying battery. I don't know of any improvements in newer phones I need (except security updates!) but I'm torn whether I want to learn how to replace the battery and risk dama…

Save up for a replacement. My 6P just started the boot loop of death. I was using it for navigation, closed the screen and put it down for an hour, picked it back up and it was boot looping. I had that 6P for 2.5 years and even replaced the battery. I just spent a lot of money on a vacation so I wasn't really ready to drop a bunch of money on another flagship-type device. I ended up buying a Moto G7 Power. It's almost the same specs as the 6P which is fine for me, I don't do much intensive stuff on there anyway, but it does have a massive 5000mAh battery which I think I'm going to love above all else.

As for battery replacement, I had a university electronics lab at my disposal. I used a heatgun to heat the top and bottom panels on the back. It wasn't the easiest but the guides online are thorough. One thing I would recommend is letting the phone cool in a bag with some silica gel packets before sticking the back glass panel on. I had some moisture develop inside the camera lens which led to some water spots. It didn't ruin the camera but picture quality degraded a little bit.

Re: Samsung's folding phone breaks for reviewers

#170

Post by antisthenes »

valine wrote: post #129
oliwarner wrote: post #53

There are a few ways of looking at this. Most of the more engineery-types are pointing out the inevitability of failure, the challenges trying to find a good enough substrate to mount a touchscreen stack on, and trying to protect an exposed external hinge from impact, and all that material engineering science stuff that's really clever... But well besides the point. I can't even rationalise why anybody wants a foldin…

I want a folding screen because it will make every part of using phones a nicer experience. There's a reason tablets exist: tablets provide a superior user experience. The foldable form factor lets you put a tablet in your pocket. Nobody understood the need for the iPad when it came out either.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't tablets a niche and have been for a while?

Not sure how accurate this graph is:

http://gs.statcounter.com/platform-market-share/desktop-mobi...

but it seems like tablet use is dwarfed by both desktop and mobile (not sure where laptops fit into the scheme of things) by a factor of 10.

But now it's 2019 and the line between tablets and laptops is blurred. However, I still don't want or need one. It's too big to fit in any pocket and too small to use as your main productivity screen. And only marginally better for watching movies than a flagship phone (which in itself is not a high bar, compared to watching a movie on a big screen TV)

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