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IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

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Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#31
post #29

Slightly unrelated, but I hope IBM doesn't ruin Red Hat and CoreOS. I would love to see the CoreOS tools to gain more adoption.

I'm a long time Fedora user. I love the sane defaults. It's just a solid workhorse. But I've been feeling pretty uneasy about using it lately...

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM will not fail, Oracle will fail first than IBM and that's unlikely to happen. You see, they are NOT tech companies. They have something you would call "tech", they sell something that looks like "tech" but they really solve problems people with access to large amounts of money have. In other words, they produce cushy and warm beds for C-level execs to have a good night of sleep, and everyone needs some bed to sle…

Spot on. IBM really does capitalize on the adage of nobody being fired for buying IBM. Their biggest strength has been in their marketing rather than actual technology. Note that, being a large org, they do have teams doing excellent work too. IBM research, some of the cloud, design etc. teams seem to be doing good stuff. But most of it is still overpromising and underdelivering while charging clients a lot of cash.

This is less true than it used to be. Oracle/SAP are largely recognized as multi-billion dollar technology quagmires these days; integration has become so much easier that cobbling together a bunch of SaaS solutions to replace a centralized ERP is a viable approach.

Likewise, IBM has become known as a vaporware vendor. They combine the worst parts of management consulting with an offshore / outsourced development process, so I guess it’s not a surprise they ended up like all the other companies that sell business tech solutions (Infosys, Wipro, etc). They’re often mentioned in the same breath these days.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#33
post #4

I have a friend who is an OB/GYN Oncologist in Indianapolis. Her hospital had IBM Watson Health on campus last year, and she mentioned to me in passing last month that they finally had kicked IBM off of their (learning) university's campus. When I asked her why, she said: "Often times, Watson would recommend courses of treatment that would be completely incorrect, if not detrimental -- or even sometimes lethal -- to…

The purpose of such a system should be to give leads for further research. If you treat them as leads and only leads, then bad leads don't matter much.

Unless, the leads are so bad on average that too much effort is spent on vetting them that could be put to better use elsewhere.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#34

a lot of these AI companies products are really terrible. Has anyone ever tried the AI API models from clarifai ? Just so unaccurate. It seems like a scam. I've also had a really bad experience with watson's speech to text apis.

An AI bubble poppage is around the corner. The actual revenue of AI companies does not justify their stock price.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#35
post #7

I can’t read most of that article because it’s behind a paywall, but wow, is Watson just the largest attempt to sell vaporware of all time?? They had a super bowl ad! A few friends from university were hired into the Watson team as hardly technical PMs. I have never heard any of them describe what Watson is or does.

I've commented this before, but Watson is nothing but branding for anything IBM does that is somewhat intelligent. There's pretty much no common technology between the different Watson products, so there's no 'core Watson' like many people believe. Some products with Watson branding are great and industry leading. Others suck. The latter tend to appear in headlines and severely impact the brand they established with…

I chatted with the lead over lunch, when they were kicking of a game AI initiative. I shied away, given that it appeared to be exactly as you say. My impression was that Watson includes everything from RNNs to linear regression, with an attempt to craft domain-specific taxonomies.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#36
post #33
post #4

I have a friend who is an OB/GYN Oncologist in Indianapolis. Her hospital had IBM Watson Health on campus last year, and she mentioned to me in passing last month that they finally had kicked IBM off of their (learning) university's campus. When I asked her why, she said: "Often times, Watson would recommend courses of treatment that would be completely incorrect, if not detrimental -- or even sometimes lethal -- to…

The purpose of such a system should be to give leads for further research. If you treat them as leads and only leads, then bad leads don't matter much. Unless, the leads are so bad on average that too much effort is spent on vetting them that could be put to better use elsewhere.

I doubt that's how Watson is being marketed to customers, though. IBM tends to oversell and under deliver and have grown increasingly desperate with their shrinking market shares in both hardware and services.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#37
post #4

I have a friend who is an OB/GYN Oncologist in Indianapolis. Her hospital had IBM Watson Health on campus last year, and she mentioned to me in passing last month that they finally had kicked IBM off of their (learning) university's campus. When I asked her why, she said: "Often times, Watson would recommend courses of treatment that would be completely incorrect, if not detrimental -- or even sometimes lethal -- to…

These are only a few data points in a almost half decade of promising for healthcare solutions and failing to meet those expectations.

The MD Anderson audit is particularly bad: https://www.utsystem.edu/sites/default/files/documents/UT%20...

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#38
post #4

I have a friend who is an OB/GYN Oncologist in Indianapolis. Her hospital had IBM Watson Health on campus last year, and she mentioned to me in passing last month that they finally had kicked IBM off of their (learning) university's campus. When I asked her why, she said: "Often times, Watson would recommend courses of treatment that would be completely incorrect, if not detrimental -- or even sometimes lethal -- to…

This reminds me of a bit in the first The Expanse book I read recently. The onboard medical computer had to be overridden because it calculated coldly that the correct course of treatment was palliative care.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#39
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. IBM really does capitalize on the adage of nobody being fired for buying IBM. Their biggest strength has been in their marketing rather than actual technology. Note that, being a large org, they do have teams doing excellent work too. IBM research, some of the cloud, design etc. teams seem to be doing good stuff. But most of it is still overpromising and underdelivering while charging clients a lot of cash.

This is less true than it used to be. Oracle/SAP are largely recognized as multi-billion dollar technology quagmires these days; integration has become so much easier that cobbling together a bunch of SaaS solutions to replace a centralized ERP is a viable approach. Likewise, IBM has become known as a vaporware vendor. They combine the worst parts of management consulting with an offshore / outsourced development pro…

IBM has been banned from our data center for several years. The decision was before my time, but the answer I've been told is overly expensive, unreliable, and poor support when compared to other vendors.

Re: IBM halting sales of Watson AI tool for drug discovery

#40

a lot of these AI companies products are really terrible. Has anyone ever tried the AI API models from clarifai ? Just so unaccurate. It seems like a scam. I've also had a really bad experience with watson's speech to text apis.

Deep learning and machine learning don’t work. Quantitative math will always prevail, as it always has. Unfortunately, mathematical research isn’t there yet. We don’t have models for vision, audition and linguistics. Neuroscience and psychology are in their infancy, a good analogy would compare these fields to where physics was pre-Newton, Galileo era of understanding. I suspect that in the decades to come, these fields will influence mathematics the same way physics influenced calculus. Physics historically had a huge influence on math, in the coming century it will be neuroscience and psychology, in linking brains to behavior, and the quantitative laws that allow brains to give rise to minds.
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