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The Moral Order of Panera

thebaffler.com

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#41
> If he did, he may have had to admit that Panera Cares was nothing but an elaborate branding exercise, a solution to a problem we already know how to solve.

I would expect there to be a lot less food insecurity if we actually knew how to solve it.

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#42

So, I can totally believe that this particular idea didn't work well. I can totally agree that we should learn from it, perhaps that people want to give $ to feed the poor only when they don't have to sit next to them, or that people on lunch break don't want to have to tackle a moral quandary just then. But, the article seemed needlessly negative. So, the CEO of Panera tried something, put his business experience to…

These kinds of things are typically done for optics rather than any actual empathy for the vulnerable/less fortunate, It's just a failed attempt to win over the hearts of more of those consumers that can and will pay. Wealth/income inequality can only be solved by a redistribution. And such a redistribution can't rely on the same dynamics that caused the inequality in the first place. (How did these people become so…

You're right. It sure was morally wrong of them to take a chance on a novel way to help people. I also hate the CEO for constantly shouting, "end all other redistributive efforts, we solved it ourselves!" /s

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#43
post #30

FWIW, Raleigh has had an independent non-profit pay-what-you-can restaurant for about 16 months now: https://tableraleigh.org/about Customers have multiple options to pay and to pay-it-forward. - Pay the suggested price - At least half of the suggested price - By volunteering with us Pay it Forward - Tip to fulfill our mission - Buy a $10 token to hand out yourself in the community I suspect these may work better as…

“I suspect these may work better as independent establishments as opposed to being part of a chain or large corporation”

Agreed. I am always skeptical of large corporations doing charity work. It’s never clear clear where the money is going and whether they just do it for PR. I find it easier to trust smaller organize.

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#44

So, I can totally believe that this particular idea didn't work well. I can totally agree that we should learn from it, perhaps that people want to give $ to feed the poor only when they don't have to sit next to them, or that people on lunch break don't want to have to tackle a moral quandary just then. But, the article seemed needlessly negative. So, the CEO of Panera tried something, put his business experience to…

In the U.S. a large segment of the population (100M+) is told over-and-over again that they should rely on the expertise and charity of the elite in business and politics to take care of them. Examples like this just show how naive and detached from reality that self appointed elite is and how little value their "charity" provides.

"self appointed elite" is a weird bag of people, which would likely contain Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, and many random CEOs in between the spectrum. Their approach/value is radically different, so it's generalising here useful?

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer my country’s social services delivered by professionals, inefficiencies and all, over church volunteers. Inefficiencies are okay, expected even, when operating at scale. Sometimes universal availability and coverage take priority (know what you’re optimizing for). Also, when discriminated against by faith based services, you have no recourse. This is unacceptable, and can be monitored and governed more effec…

I really don't know why inefficiency is ok, sorry. If a system is less efficient at scale then engineering approach teaches us to modularize/split it into smaller chunks. Btw, you used "professional" word as if it's something good in itself. That's far from truth. Professional bureaucrats, and state officials quite often are directly interested in growing inefficiency because it can be exploited to expand budgets, an…

[deleted]

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, charities and churches are rarely "run well". Many charities have become a cash cow for their executives and office staff (“Hey, look, we can direct a lot of these donations to paying us extremely generous salaries”), with actual generosity to those in need almost seeming an afterthought. I saw this firsthand when I volunteered in the central office of a charity, and it rather shattered my idealism. Chu…

> The thing is, charities and churches are rarely "run well". Do you have any data or personal experience (not just one example) to back that up? The truth is, the vast majority of churches and local faith-based charities just quietly do their thing and usually aren’t big enough to garner any recognition or attention at scale. Actually, it’s the big operations with money flowing to a central hub that are usually the…

Furthermore, in all of the situations I've experienced involving these, not only does local government fail where these orgs quietly succeed, I've found that same government trying mightily to hamper the actions of those charities at every turn.

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, charities and churches are rarely "run well". Many charities have become a cash cow for their executives and office staff (“Hey, look, we can direct a lot of these donations to paying us extremely generous salaries”), with actual generosity to those in need almost seeming an afterthought. I saw this firsthand when I volunteered in the central office of a charity, and it rather shattered my idealism. Chu…

> The thing is, charities and churches are rarely "run well". Do you have any data or personal experience (not just one example) to back that up? The truth is, the vast majority of churches and local faith-based charities just quietly do their thing and usually aren’t big enough to garner any recognition or attention at scale. Actually, it’s the big operations with money flowing to a central hub that are usually the…

As far as churches, I’ve seen a number of places that 70% of the church’s budget goes to keeping the church afloat.

https://get.tithe.ly/blog/church-wasting-money

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason it's so negative is because it already notes that prior research showed consumer responsibilization doesn't work. Shaich might see himself as good-minded, even volunteering as cashier, but he comes off more as misguided (what with his Ted Talk enthusiasm) and out of touch (note the vast gap between the customers and this man who made $2 million that year). I'm not sure why you expected some bland analytica…

Exactly. It's negative because Shaich acted without doing any research, purely trusting his "gut" about how he, a rich white man, thought food insecurity could be "solved" despite being the last person in the world who would know anything about it. It's negative because it was a waste of time and money that could have been applied much more effectively to help the problem if some research was done first instead of tr…

Hmmm...I don't see much Randian about this effort. I'm not sure Rand would have approved of a CEO trying to help the poor at all. His point about soup kitchens being depressing places to have to eat, whether it is accurate or not, is at least evidence of thinking about the psychological need for respect of the recipient. Anyway, again, I'm not saying this was the right approach, I'm just saying the article should be more "let's learn what we can here", and less "look at this dumb rich guy being a jerk for trying to help people in a way that didn't work well".

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer my country’s social services delivered by professionals, inefficiencies and all, over church volunteers. Inefficiencies are okay, expected even, when operating at scale. Sometimes universal availability and coverage take priority (know what you’re optimizing for). Also, when discriminated against by faith based services, you have no recourse. This is unacceptable, and can be monitored and governed more effec…

I really don't know why inefficiency is ok, sorry. If a system is less efficient at scale then engineering approach teaches us to modularize/split it into smaller chunks. Btw, you used "professional" word as if it's something good in itself. That's far from truth. Professional bureaucrats, and state officials quite often are directly interested in growing inefficiency because it can be exploited to expand budgets, an…

Saying you prefer a welfare state provided by "professionals" does not necessary mean bureaucrats. It also includes things like social workers who have undergone rigorous training to better deal with the mentally ill, those suffering from addiction, and vulnerable minorities. A church or charity worker, no matter how well-meaning they might be, does not necessarily have those skills.

Re: The Moral Order of Panera

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The truth is, the vast majority of churches and local faith-based charities just quietly do their thing and usually aren’t big enough to garner any recognition or attention at scale. Your original comment said: > When run well, those do far more good than even government programs. Can you prove this? Because Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamps do more good for 100+ million Americans than your local…

Because Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamps do more good for 100+ million Do more good because their have much bigger budgets? - Maybe. More good per every dollar spent? I doubt it.

You...”doubt it”? I guess the issue is settled, then. I’ll take it that the underlying argument is “government bad, private good”. It doesn’t really contribute anything, but at least we can guess at the reasoning.
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