Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#61

Post by Avamander » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:12 AM UTC

ac29 wrote: post #36

comradesmith wrote: post #9

Installing f-droid and using more simple and open source apps is one of the best things I've done lately.

Its too bad its still flakey at updating apps. I've been using it for a few apps for many years, and I'd say easily half of app updates simply fail for non-obvious reasons. Its been this way across multiple devices and countless versions of Android, so I'm left to believe the problem is with F-droid itself.

I also heavily heavily hate the idea that they sign everything, the app stores must not be trusted. They should only be signing over packages already reproducibly compiled.

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#62

Post by nwellinghoff » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

tty2300 wrote: post #49

43920 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with early 2000's-style software delivery wasn't that you could choose which software to install, it was that there was no separation between programs, so that any random program you installed could add toolbars to your browser, steal all your passwords, etc. If iOS or Android made it easier to install apps outside the store, I highly doubt you'd see anywhere near the same level of problems, since everyth…

I would find it acceptable if side loading apps was allowed by default but sideloaded apps are blocked from the dangerous permissions like device admin and draw over screen. Apps that really do require this have to be checked by a maintainer or require the device to be in developer mode. This way almost everyone is happy because most apps don't really require anything other than internet, camera and GPS which can be…

This. Google and Apple should make it easy for computer literate people to use something more advanced. Have the unwashed massed version sure, but then let us override it in a graceful manner instead of having to jump through hoops. Would lead to all kinds of free innovation etc. that they could then take over and profit from. Use the computer literate! WE WILL FIX IT FOR YOU

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#63

Post by yeahitslikethat » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

People think I'm weird for not installing whatsapp because it downloads all my contacts and I can't prevent that in this version of android which I can't update because I can only do that through at&t while on their network but I get service through someone else because at&t doesn't cover my area.

It's absurd.

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#64

Post by tty2300 » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 3:24 AM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #60

tty2300 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would find it acceptable if side loading apps was allowed by default but sideloaded apps are blocked from the dangerous permissions like device admin and draw over screen. Apps that really do require this have to be checked by a maintainer or require the device to be in developer mode. This way almost everyone is happy because most apps don't really require anything other than internet, camera and GPS which can be…

Isn’t that what native web apps are for, where you Share > Home Screen and they store themselves in local storage in the browser cache?

Web apps can't use GPS like an app can

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#65

Post by Sylos » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 3:38 AM UTC

yeahitslikethat wrote: post #63

People think I'm weird for not installing whatsapp because it downloads all my contacts and I can't prevent that in this version of android which I can't update because I can only do that through at&t while on their network but I get service through someone else because at&t doesn't cover my area. It's absurd.

Just get a written permission from all of your contacts that you're allowed to upload their data to WhatsApp, like the rest of us clearly have.

Or make it so that no one has anything against you ever. Because people have been sued already for uploading their contacts' information to WhatsApp without permission.

I really don't want to encourage you to use WhatsApp, but one possible solution would be to use this app: https://f-droid.org/app/opencontacts.open.com.opencontacts

It's a separate store for your contacts, so that you don't have to use the Android contacts implementation where every app and their mum wants access to.

However, mind that WhatsApp is not going to be particularly user-friendly whether you do this or block access to the contacts in newer Android versions. It won't display people's names until they've chatted to you (and then only in a shitty secondary GUI), so you will often have to guess from their picture who they might be.

And worse still, there's no way to initiate a chat from within WhatsApp to someone who's not in your contacts.

Thankfully, there's an app for that nowadays, too: https://f-droid.org/app/io.github.subhamtyagi.openinwhatsapp

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#66

Post by Sylos » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 3:43 AM UTC

craftinator wrote: post #18

Here is a solution for this problem: let's devalue mobile advertisements. How? Simple: every time you see an ad, add the product advertised to a blacklist. Refuse to download any app that advertises to you. I've been doing this for a few years, and have felt no negative effects; in fact I have way less app clutter on my phone, and I still find all of the apps that I look for. Advertising has changed in nature; it use…

I appreciate the vigour, but it's probably easier to just use an ad blocker: https://f-droid.org/app/org.blokada.alarm

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#67

Post by yeahitslikethat » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 3:47 AM UTC

Sylos wrote: post #65

yeahitslikethat wrote: post #63

People think I'm weird for not installing whatsapp because it downloads all my contacts and I can't prevent that in this version of android which I can't update because I can only do that through at&t while on their network but I get service through someone else because at&t doesn't cover my area. It's absurd.

Just get a written permission from all of your contacts that you're allowed to upload their data to WhatsApp, like the rest of us clearly have. Or make it so that no one has anything against you ever. Because people have been sued already for uploading their contacts' information to WhatsApp without permission. I really don't want to encourage you to use WhatsApp, but one possible solution would be to use this app: h…

That last part was the big pain. They had to add me when I had it on the newer android but that phone died. Thanks for the empathy.

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#68

Post by stephenr » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 3:59 AM UTC

tty2300 wrote: post #64

floatingatoll wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that what native web apps are for, where you Share > Home Screen and they store themselves in local storage in the browser cache?

Web apps can't use GPS like an app can

Im generally not a fan of web apps but this is incorrect.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Geolocation

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#69

Post by touristtam » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 4:09 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #37

shittyadmin wrote: post #4

Good. This is what advertising agencies asked for and what they deserve. Implement a "click button to get money" system means of course people are going to try to beat that any way they can. I'm surprised any web advertising firm manages to stay afloat.

In fact, there's a browser extension which users willingly install that can help you "commit ad fraud": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19278936 It might actually be beneficial for privacy, since trying to "poison the well" of tracking data gets detected by the adtech companies and they'll likely start ignoring you. In that sense, affecting their bottom line is the only way to make advertisers leave you alone...

I would rather not being subjected to the adverts and the associated data mining in the first place. Nothing more creepy than the feeling you are being stalked through your internet journey to sell you yet another useless product you don't want or need.

Creepy and deceitful.

Re: Popular Google Play store apps are abusing permissions and committing ad fraud

#70

Post by autoexec » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #37

shittyadmin wrote: post #4

Good. This is what advertising agencies asked for and what they deserve. Implement a "click button to get money" system means of course people are going to try to beat that any way they can. I'm surprised any web advertising firm manages to stay afloat.

In fact, there's a browser extension which users willingly install that can help you "commit ad fraud": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19278936 It might actually be beneficial for privacy, since trying to "poison the well" of tracking data gets detected by the adtech companies and they'll likely start ignoring you. In that sense, affecting their bottom line is the only way to make advertisers leave you alone...

Companies care only about click fraud in as much as it costs them money.

My guess is that this kind of add-on will make your traffic stand out like a sore thumb too so while some companies will happily log that you're into every ad they throw at you, most won't bill for your fake clicks and simply have a very easy time tracking the pages you visit across the web. Where you go says a lot more about you than any ad you click on while you are there.

If enough people use something like this it would force shitty low effort ad platforms to implement some basic fraud detection, but forcing minor players into investing in their services isn't exactly screwing anyone over.