People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly • Hacker News Board

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#191

Post by kjdndisneinj » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 12:30 AM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #103

munk-a wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in the case of a scan that isn't urgent. If you were in a car accident and have a piece of metal embedded in your kidney are you in a level, clear-minded state to price shop about which emergency room won't gouge you? Health care is an inelastic good, we need it. So this is a market (much like having a military) that really benefits from the government stepping in and making things sane.

That’s what an advanced directive is for. We just need to extend it beyond CPR/no CPR and heroic measures vs no heroic measures, etc. Kinda how like insurance companies negotiate prices for everything in advance of you showing up. Let users watch a series of videos and choose what kind of risk and benefit they tolerate/want and how much they’re willing to spend. It’s morbid, but we do such assessments constantly. Do…

So now not only do I have to spend several days on the phone each year with my insurance company, on top of figuring out which plan I want every new job, but I also need to watch a bunch of videos about kidney-replacement options for when I get in a car accident? And what heart attack care is available? And how many $1000 Ti screws they should put in my leg when I shatter it rock climbing? And somehow the collective time-wasting is going to be somehow cheaper for all of us?

I always wonder if you libertarians are doing a bit, because it sure seems like it.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#192

Post by kjdndisneinj » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

nybble41 wrote: post #162

helen___keller wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the fallacies in play is buying insurance is put in one category. Whereas paying taxes for insurance is another. The first is 'good' because it's 'free market' and the second is 'bad' because it's the government taking your money's. Well, I'm in favor of socialized healthcare and generally receptive to increased taxation, so that's definitely not the implication I was going for. But it is true that there does…

> A more sound statement would be "I as a consumer am willing to pay dollars equal to twice my current premiums to get healthcare coverage while avoiding hassles while receiving routine healthcare" Ah, but are you willing to force everyone else pay twice as much so that you can get the health care you want? That's the real question. You said you were in favor of socialized healthcare, so I would guess the answer to t…

> The point of socializing healthcare is making other people pay.

Yes. Especially you personally. Honestly, I don't even care about socialized healthcare as long as your tax rate is > 90%. Think of it as a "stupid libertarian tax".

I think most people will be in support of this measure, as hopefully it will force you to work so hard you don't have time to make inane internet comments.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#193

Post by tanzbaer » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

helen___keller wrote: post #37

The point of health insurance is to pay into a risk pool as a collective so that the small percentage of people who end up needing the largest percentage of health care, nobody dies or goes into monumental debt. This can be done via taxes but insurance is a private market solution which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit. So then if it's supposedly more efficient, why do I waste…

The problem isn't the insurance, but the fact that your insurance is tied to your employer. There's reason health insurance should be treated like car, life, and home insurance. You shop for what you want and switch whenever you find something better. Unfortunately the current system is so ridiculous that most people think private insurance itself is the problem.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#194

Post by moonka » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

CloudFormation wrote: post #188

helen___keller wrote: post #37

The point of health insurance is to pay into a risk pool as a collective so that the small percentage of people who end up needing the largest percentage of health care, nobody dies or goes into monumental debt. This can be done via taxes but insurance is a private market solution which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit. So then if it's supposedly more efficient, why do I waste…

Churning health insurance with a high deductible plan + HSA is an even bigger timesuck. Just yesterday I sent in the paperwork to roll over my HSA from one bank to another-- the punchline is, my insurance provider didn't change and my insurance login was the same (Premera ConnectYourCare), but it looked like the 15k in my HSA account inexplicably disappeared. Needless to say, this was concerning. A few phone calls la…

It's painful. After going through something similar (with UMB and ConnectYourCare/UMB), I ended up over at Lively. No fees, and you can invest with TD Ameritrade for free. I hear Fidelity is a good option as well.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#195

Post by tanzbaer » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #163

pnathan wrote: post #43

One of the fundamental reasons why I haven't really bothered doing startups or running a small business myself is the radical uncertainty over health insurance for myself and my family. It's not just plain $$$ and career risk, it's the "suppose you will go bankrupt and your family has permanent medical issues now" risk. That game is for the wealthy or healthy single people In addition, each insurance plan has slightl…

> One of the fundamental reasons why I haven't really bothered doing startups or running a small business myself is the radical uncertainty over health insurance for myself and my family. I joined a startup once, but it was in Europe, so these issues weren't even on my radar or the company's radar. With government healthcare and government unemployment insurance, it's a no-brainer. The only risk is to your lifetime e…

And yet the US is still way more entrepreneurial.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#196

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

helen___keller wrote: post #37

The point of health insurance is to pay into a risk pool as a collective so that the small percentage of people who end up needing the largest percentage of health care, nobody dies or goes into monumental debt. This can be done via taxes but insurance is a private market solution which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit. So then if it's supposedly more efficient, why do I waste…

You can fund private insurance via taxes as well. That's not a limit to private market insurances.

But I tell you one thing that really affects why insurance sucks: that you get sweet tax exemptions if you get it through an employer, and to be an insurance that works through an employer you need to overcome massive regulatory hurdles.

Welcome to the world of regulatory capture.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#197

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #82

ummonk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually sounds like the high deductible plan is functioning as it should though. Causing consumers to price-shop and avoid price-gouging providers.

What if the cheaper place is cheaper cause it's not as capable ? How am I supposed to know? In what other scenario are we similarly encouraged to act on price alone? Price transparency is meaningless with quality transparency.

Price is the best mechanism for organically assessing quality at scale.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#198

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #52

helen___keller wrote: post #37

The point of health insurance is to pay into a risk pool as a collective so that the small percentage of people who end up needing the largest percentage of health care, nobody dies or goes into monumental debt. This can be done via taxes but insurance is a private market solution which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit. So then if it's supposedly more efficient, why do I waste…

If private insurance is going to work, then every healthcare provider has to accept payment from every insurance. This clusterfuck we have where you have in-network providers with one price and out-of-network providers with a different price just has to stop. Oh you went to an in-network hospital, but this one doctor walked into the room for five minutes and she was out-of-network, so now your bill is 10x higher than…

1) Pass law providers require to support all insurances

2) Make insurance company that reimburses 1$ per visit

3) Profit

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#199

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:46 AM UTC

travisoneill1 wrote: post #68

helen___keller wrote: post #37

The point of health insurance is to pay into a risk pool as a collective so that the small percentage of people who end up needing the largest percentage of health care, nobody dies or goes into monumental debt. This can be done via taxes but insurance is a private market solution which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit. So then if it's supposedly more efficient, why do I waste…

> which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit There are multiple reasons why this doesn't work for healthcare even in theory. - Emergency care can't be substituted without massive cost. Providers compete on distance not on price. - Emergency care can't be denied (or at least we don't want this) on the basis of price. - Health is not insurable like cars, etc. You can't predict in ad…

Emergency care being expensive is not a problem of insurance. Public hospitals are also expensive. Its related to other things.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#200

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Apr 18, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #92

helen___keller wrote: post #37

The point of health insurance is to pay into a risk pool as a collective so that the small percentage of people who end up needing the largest percentage of health care, nobody dies or goes into monumental debt. This can be done via taxes but insurance is a private market solution which should in theory make it more efficient for the sake of maximizing profit. So then if it's supposedly more efficient, why do I waste…

> If I could choose to just pay more in taxes One of the fallacies in play is buying insurance is put in one category. Whereas paying taxes for insurance is another. The first is 'good' because it's 'free market' and the second is 'bad' because it's the government taking your money's.

What I don't get is why do you think paying 2k to a private insurance is any worse than 2k to the state.