Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AMP pages displaying your own domain

webmasters.googleblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 340 posts

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#321

Post by lern_too_spel »

kuschku wrote: post #292
lern_too_spel wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AMP uses megabytes of JS for that purpose What? Where are you pulling these numbers? Also, what do you mean by hot cache? I'm starting to suspect that you don't even understand that the AMP page (the JavaScript for sure, and often the entire HTML and above-the-fold images as well) is already on the user's device, while your page is not.

If the AMP version takes longer to load than the time between the search results loading and the user clicking on it, then the AMP version will still have a visible load time. Obviously, this part is affected by the AMP js being in cache or not. Still, often my own page can load faster than just this user-visible part of loading the AMP version. AMP works best when the user visits almost only AMP pages (so the resour…

Your claims disagree with the facts on the ground, where latency is the main factor affecting page load time. This is the driving force behind CDNs, HTTP2, QUIC, and pretty much every speed optimization that people have been working on in the past few years. https://www.afasterweb.com/2015/05/17/the-latency-effect/

Your claim that your page loads faster also reeks of wishful thinking. Pretty much every AMP page I have loaded from a SERP loads instantly, not just fast. For someone on a worse connection, the page will have started loading before the user clicks on the link from near caches versus have not started loading at all from a far server. In the rare case where the AMP JS is not in the browser cache, it will be after loading the first result.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#323

Post by grrowl »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #257
codedokode wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google already can do this by preloading a cached page from its own domain. So this specification is unnecessary. I think the real reason is that Google wants to build a walled garden, but doesn't want the walls to be noticeable. Even with AMP, they display a header that looks like a browser's address bar [1] Also, on that page Google admits that it uses AMP Viewer to collect information about users: > Data collectio…

> Google already can do this by preloading a cached page from its own domain. That's what AMP already did. This spec is better because it ensures publishers retain control over their own content, and doesn't confuse users by showing "www.google.com" in the URL bar for content that didn't originate from Google.

I copy your post, but make it available further up the thread. Even though I sync your comment’s edits to mine several times a day, I also control Hacker News so I get them to display your username in place of mine, as to not confuse readers.

Page and DNS prefetching exists, HTML exists, why not just link to the page on the original domain?

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#324

Post by notatoad »

mthoms wrote: post #84
abc-xyz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that the only way? Seems like they could easily have achieved the same result by significantly penalizing sites based on load time and number of external requests.

This question cuts right to the heart of the matter. I've yet to see a Google engineer, executive, or "fanboy" address this question adequately. This thread will be no exception. Queue the crickets.

A fast load time when a page is indexed does not guarantee a fast load time when it is served up to the actual viewer. Serving the page from cache is the only way to guarantee that the page will still be fast when the user wants to view it.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#325

Post by craftinator »

Can any Google engineers comment on the the large amount of negativity towards AMP found in these HN comments (and pretty much every other HN forum discussing AMP)? I can't imagine working on a project and seeing so many people (especially given the average education level on HN) who can't stand it. I want to hear from you guys about this!

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#326

Post by kuschku »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #321
kuschku wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the AMP version takes longer to load than the time between the search results loading and the user clicking on it, then the AMP version will still have a visible load time. Obviously, this part is affected by the AMP js being in cache or not. Still, often my own page can load faster than just this user-visible part of loading the AMP version. AMP works best when the user visits almost only AMP pages (so the resour…

Your claims disagree with the facts on the ground, where latency is the main factor affecting page load time. This is the driving force behind CDNs, HTTP2, QUIC, and pretty much every speed optimization that people have been working on in the past few years. https://www.afasterweb.com/2015/05/17/the-latency-effect/ Your claim that your page loads faster also reeks of wishful thinking. Pretty much every AMP page I hav…

As mentioned, I've done testing on actual devices on actual high-latency low-bandwith connections, hundreds of times. That's the "facts on the ground".

If you say pretty much every AMP page you've loaded has been instant, please post the specs of the devices and network you've been using for testing.

Additionally, if the latency between the device and the nearest server is over two seconds, the latency to a far server as well as the click latency don't even come into play anymore at all, instead the number of connections needed becomes much more important, and bandwidth also becomes a much larger factor.

Your claim that HTTP/2 would have worked towards better latency on lower connections is also false, on bad mobile connections HTTP/2 actually increases latency, which was a major reason for QUIC aka HTTP/3 in the first place.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#327

Post by gregable »

username223 wrote: post #245
gregable wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The behavior for browsers without support is to show the google.com/amp URL as before, along with a small html-based bar with additional information about the original domain and share intents.

> share intents Does that mean that the Google+ button is coming back? Seriously? Why not just serve the content and leave it at that? Is the tiny bit of extra data you get from a unique "share on Facebook" URL worth it?

The share button simply calls the browser's share API, for example: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator/s...

> The Navigator.share() method invokes the native sharing mechanism of the device as part of the Web Share API.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#328

Post by Tepix »

zackbloom wrote: post #226
Tepix wrote: post #180

Using the signed exchange mechanism means you allow anyone to serve your content. You will no longer know when it has been served and by whom. Instead, Google will know more about what your users are consuming on your website than you - despite HTTPS! Also, there is no mechanism to limit who is allowed to serve your content for you. I see no technical reason why the content has to be prefetched from Google instead of…

The reason it has to be prefetched from not-you is to protect the users privacy. Until they click a link it is not considered acceptable to leak their search to the potential destination. Links have to be fetched from a third-party who the search engine trusts not to share the data, that at the moment is Google but will hopefully expand.

„Considered acceptable“ by whom?

Why should the user‘s privacy be protected toward the content provider instead of the search provider? The search provider already knows more about me.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#329

Post by codewiz »

pvorb wrote: post #304
Ajedi32 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google already knows the unencrypted contents of the page, and they know you clicked on a link to it (from their search results page). The signed exchanges system doesn't reveal any information to Google _or_ the publisher that they don't already know. Your browser controls the contents of the URL bar, not Google or the publisher.

But Google controls my browser.

Have you tried changing browser? -- Written from my Chromium browser installed from the Fedora Linux package repository.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#330

Post by m-p-3 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #319
maxwell wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMP was what made me abandon Google Search in January 2018 for DuckDuckGo. Surprising how little I've noticed the change, after using Google Search for over 15 years. I try queries on google.com maybe once or twice a week if I don't find what I'm looking for on DDG. If it's anything media or product related, I feel like I'm on an old, crowded MySpace page. DDG feels more like the old Google.

You convinced me. Switching now. Fuck this noise.

You can even tweak your DuckDuckGo settings (dark theme, etc) and save them in DuckDuckGo using a passphrase of your choice, which you can restore and keep them in sync across those devices.
Post reply on HN