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AMP pages displaying your own domain

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Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#311

Post by andrekandre »

delroth wrote: post #142
cannedslime wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest quarrel with this is that its just another way for google to take control over the internet. Does any other search provider than google use AMP? Does any browser other than googles own support this? How busy are you? You can't wait 0.5 seconds for an HTTP request? And you think its worth feeding google with more precise data about your movements online than they already have? And as a business integrating…

https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introdu... Disclaimer: I work at Google, nothing related to AMP or search.

my counter argument to this would be: we don’t need more corporate control of the internet and standards, we need less... bing throwing their weight in isn’t any better imo

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#312

Post by driverdan »

eitally wrote: post #300
driverdan wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, AMP is an open standard not solely owned or contributed to by Google. > https://amp.dev/ amp.dev is owned and controlled by Google. ampproject.org is owned and controlled by Google. The core AMP team are Google employees. How can you possibly say it's not owned by Google?

I don't believe either of these statements is true: "ampproject.org is ... controlled by Google. The core AMP team are Google employees." https://blog.amp.dev/2018/09/18/governance/ The TSC is independent and, at this point, the committee code commits are almost 4x the volume of Googler commits.

1. Do a whois on those domains and you'll see they're owned by Google.

2. The privacy policy on amp.dev is Google's.

3. Both sites are hosted by Google.

4. The license in the amphtml repo says copyright Google.

5. The OWNERS.yaml file in the amphtml repo list 3 people, all of whom work for google.

6. Per the contributing code readme, contributing code requires signing this Google CLA: https://cla.developers.google.com/about/google-individual

7. Looking at the last few merged PRs nearly everyone involved is a Google employee. I realize this could be a coincidence but I'm not going to analyze the whole repo.

8. The TSC is 3/7 Google employees.

Regardless, until Google issues a legally binding release of the project to an independent organization it is owned by Google. The TSC and AC could be removed at Google's whim.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#313

Post by gregable »

AlexandrB wrote: post #208
gregable wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. If you make a search query, but have not clicked on any results, you have a privacy expectation that the web servers of the search results you have not clicked on will not know you performed this query, your ip address, cookie, etc. For example, if you search for [headache] and then close the window, mayoclinic.com knowing that you made this query would probably be a surprising result. With naive prelo…

Thanks, this was very informative. I'm not a fan of AMP at all, but this helps me understand the reasoning a little bit better and why Google hosting the AMP cache is necessary for preserving privacy. At its root, I think my objections to AMP boil down to a few things: On a technical level: 1. It's buggy and weird on iOS. 2. I'm not convinced I care about a few seconds of loading time enough to justify the added comp…

Bandwidth increases do not fix latency. If a document has to round trip from the other side of the planet, that adds about 200 milliseconds until we break the speed of light. If that same document must make several round trips to be able to initially load (very common!) this adds up rather quickly. The only solutions are localized caching and prefetching.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#314

Post by codedokode »

andrerm wrote: post #247
codedokode wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AMP documents don't share user data with Google, which can be trivially seen by inspecting the network events that the page generates. Is there anything preventing Google from changing this later?

No, if Google can change the way web works from day one they can change anything they want. Don't forget Google is killing imap and dns already. Why not http to?

Also, Google explicitly states that it is collecting data in AMP Viewer [1]:

> The Google AMP Viewer is a hybrid environment where you can collect data about the user. Data collection by Google is governed by Google’s privacy policy.

I assume they collect information from HTTP request the browser sends when requesting an AMP page.

[1] https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/about-amp#a...

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#315

Post by gregable »

e12e wrote: post #222
gregable wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. The publisher signs an expiration timestamp in the Signed HTTP Exchange. The publisher can choose this timestamp and the browser will not respect signatures with expirations in the past. Note also that the specification requires, and browsers enforce, that the expiration cannot be more than 7 days in the future.

Wouldn't it be better to borrow from HTTP and allow a head request to the original source - with a reply of a current signature? Isn't this whole exercise really just adapting public key signatures on top of old school caching? With a http proxy you ask for an url, the proxy fetches or serves on behalf of the owner. This adds some circumvention around the way tls/ssl breaks that type of caching. But it should still b…

There is in fact some draft language around this kind of a mechanism to update a signature to extend the lifetime of the document by fetching a remote URL. See https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-yasskin-http-origin-signed-r... .

Doing this on every page load breaks either user privacy (by making the origin fetch before the user clicks) or the preload performance gain itself (by blocking load while waiting for this round trip).

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#317

Post by IgorPartola »

dbbk wrote: post #267
smilliken wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't see AMP if you switch search engines.

Bing implements AMP, and there's nothing technically stopping other search engines from adding support. Also, links in the Twitter app default to AMP as well.

I wouldn't mind AMP as a feature as long as Google let me specify that I don't want it.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#318

Post by IgorPartola »

zavi wrote: post #295
IgorPartola wrote: post #206

I can’t believe there is no way to opt out of AMP as the end user. The UX is so terrible. Often times I will search for something and have a Reddit result come back. When I tap the link, I get the AMP page which: * does not show all comments, often ones I am actually looking for * does not let me collapse comment sections * uses the default white background theme which burns my retinas if I am looking at my phone in…

Sounds like a criticism of Reddit moreso than AMP.

I pick on Reddit because it has the most glaring issues. But there are others. Certain tech sites like Gizmodo come to mind. So do some news sites. It's especially weird when the result is a page that contains a video, and the video is what I actually want but because of AMP it doesn't load, and it's not immediately apparent what's going on.

AMP is straight up broken technology. Imagine if you subscribed to a print version of the NYT but instead of getting the Sunday edition you got a ransom note looking summary of some of the articles from Clipper Magazine. Would you be OK with that?

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#319

Post by IgorPartola »

maxwell wrote: post #309
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just this morning I got pissed off by an AMP page and was considering a search engine switch. Maybe this is my sign.

AMP was what made me abandon Google Search in January 2018 for DuckDuckGo. Surprising how little I've noticed the change, after using Google Search for over 15 years. I try queries on google.com maybe once or twice a week if I don't find what I'm looking for on DDG. If it's anything media or product related, I feel like I'm on an old, crowded MySpace page. DDG feels more like the old Google.

You convinced me. Switching now. Fuck this noise.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#320

Post by IanCal »

themacguffinman wrote: post #301
IanCal wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite following which parts were or weren't needed for what's been enabled in the post here, for the usecase of delivering a single offline package that can be opened like a website, is there something that works yet? Or a repo I should be following other than the spec? Once I can create webpackages and deliver them to clients a lot of thing I want to do become hugely easier and nicer.

I believe Chrome has already shipped an implementation, I don't know any more details unfortunately. It's still in the standardization process. I know it's not exactly easy to follow but the only implementation repo I can think of to follow right now is the Chromium repo.

Oh interesting! I'll see what I can find there, thanks!

I also had a look in the blog and the "progressive web apps" might be the right thing to look at. There's probably something subtle that's different but I think I can use these to solve the actual problem I have.

https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/03/nic73?hl=h...

edit - damn, I don't think this is right at all. Frustrating as it seems pretty perfect but I have to serve from my own domain for 30s before a user can install it :( I just want a single file way of delivering web content! It seems like all the features are basically there, just with restrictions to focus on different use cases.

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