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New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

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Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#131

Post by reallydude »

asark wrote: post #107
reallydude wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's ironic that your comment was downoted. The mentality of Americans is warped beyond repair. If you don't think you have a chance of winning, it's not "realistic" or what-have-you, until you get to the lottery... See the sister comment about voting for HC against DT because it's all or nothing.

It's a structural problem with how our elections work. No sense blaming individual voters for chosing "vote with the intent to maybe (but almost certainly not) affect the outcome" versus "definitely do not affect the outcome, but maybe (but almost certainly not) send a message".

> No sense blaming individual voters

You're literally restating the tactic, as if that countermands the truth. There is no change unless the behavior changes, which is at the individual level. Why not dispense with the public altogether, if the individuals don't matter? Just leave it to the political parties?

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#132

Post by kgilpin »

driverdan wrote: post #18

> A recent RAND study found the cost of training a basic qualified fighter pilot ranges from $5.6 million for an F-16 pilot to $10.9 million for an F-22 pilot. Those numbers seem outrageous to me. Why does it cost so much? Are there frequent plane crashes?

Jets cost a ton to operate, in fuel, maintenance and personnel.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#133

Post by ben7799 »

souprock wrote: post #125
Moru wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weren't we talking about people in their twenties? Do you people often get married at that age? I thought it was more common to delay marriage and kids to later in the career nowadays?

That delay is common where many Hacker News people reside, in places ranging from San Francisco to northern Sweden. It is however unnatural, and people in more affordable locations are still starting families closer to the natural time. My wife and I had 5 or 6 kids in my twenties, and then about that many in our thirties, and then still more. This sort of family becomes impossible if you delay, and you might not rea…

Not that many people have 10+ kids, or something is just wrong with your post.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#134

Post by umvi »

souprock wrote: post #127
umvi wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you breathing super pure oxygen/nitrogen mixture in a fighter jet?

I believe the F-22 uses air that is oxygen-enriched by a mechanical device that does some sort of filtering/diffusion process. Picture this: It's time to go fly. The alarm is going off, and you need to get in your jet. Boogers are streaming down your face, and you are experiencing sneezing fits that have you bent over with your eyes closing and tearing up. You can put on a mask with nice clean air, but it'll take an…

Not all allergies are like that. I would wager the vast majority are pretty mild symptoms easily treatable with anti-histamines. I myself have allergies, but I never even notice because the air at work is filtered and I'm not outside long enough for symptoms to manifest as I travel to and from my car.

Maybe the case could be made for fighter pilots (though I still think it's a non-issue for 99% of people with seasonal allergies), but what's the excuse for disqualifying for all aircraft? Airline pilots can have allergies and fly. How is that much different from a heavy cargo plane?

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#135

Post by ARandomerDude »

umvi wrote: post #134
souprock wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the F-22 uses air that is oxygen-enriched by a mechanical device that does some sort of filtering/diffusion process. Picture this: It's time to go fly. The alarm is going off, and you need to get in your jet. Boogers are streaming down your face, and you are experiencing sneezing fits that have you bent over with your eyes closing and tearing up. You can put on a mask with nice clean air, but it'll take an…

Not all allergies are like that. I would wager the vast majority are pretty mild symptoms easily treatable with anti-histamines. I myself have allergies, but I never even notice because the air at work is filtered and I'm not outside long enough for symptoms to manifest as I travel to and from my car. Maybe the case could be made for fighter pilots (though I still think it's a non-issue for 99% of people with seasona…

> How is that much different from a heavy cargo plane?

1. Deployed environments are often less than pretty. There's pretty much no comparison between a peacetime US/Europe life and wartime, even at airbases.

2. In the military, aircrews are expected to go down behind enemy lines, regardless of how often it happens against terrorist groups. They want to maximize your probability of survival after the crash/shootdown. Medical preconditions of any kind don't really help that.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#136

Post by closetohome »

Jtsummers wrote: post #93
umvi wrote: post #6

Seems like the Air Force is trapped in a vicious underhiring/overhiring cycle. When I was in college I did Air Force ROTC. A lot of my peers had pilot slots; I was poised as a 17D (Cyber Ops). After graduating, my training date was put on hold virtually indefinitely. Eventually I got an email that the Air Force had commissioned way too many officers and were looking for people to voluntarily leave with no commitment/…

If this was around 10 or so years ago, my understanding for the stricter pilot requirements was that same glut of recruits. The Air Force flip-flops on how strict or lax they are on some of those based on the need for pilots at any given time. When there's a deficit, suddenly someone with 20/70 vision can get a slot as a heavy (cargo or bomber) pilot, but when there's a glut they want everyone to have 20/20 vision. I…

And the long-term consequence of that is that even if they relax the requirements later, a large number of people who might have considered it as a career simply wrote it off.

I know that's what happened with me. I heard nothing but nightmare stories about how hard it was to get a pilot slot, so I let that go and went to college instead.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#137

Post by asark »

reallydude wrote: post #131
asark wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a structural problem with how our elections work. No sense blaming individual voters for chosing "vote with the intent to maybe (but almost certainly not) affect the outcome" versus "definitely do not affect the outcome, but maybe (but almost certainly not) send a message".

> No sense blaming individual voters You're literally restating the tactic, as if that countermands the truth. There is no change unless the behavior changes, which is at the individual level. Why not dispense with the public altogether, if the individuals don't matter? Just leave it to the political parties?

> You're literally restating the tactic, as if that countermands the truth

The truth is the current system stabilizes at two parties due to how the rules are written, and that most voters are de facto disenfranchised at the federal (and, largely, state as well) level for a bunch of reasons. Spending any time or energy getting worked up at someone (uselessly) voting one way to try to work within that system for change, versus someone (uselessly) ignoring (or misunderstanding) that system and voting some other way, is counterproductive.

An effective use of one's time is working at the party level (by which, yes, I mean the two that get elected, not the rest) to get better candidates on the ballot, for one's own definition of better, voting in local elections and advocating for or against local candidates, and educating fellow voters on issues that matter to you. This includes working to change the way our elections work to break the two-party stability point and expand the effective franchise, if you care about those things—the means to fix that are the same as anything else.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#138

Post by umvi »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #135
umvi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all allergies are like that. I would wager the vast majority are pretty mild symptoms easily treatable with anti-histamines. I myself have allergies, but I never even notice because the air at work is filtered and I'm not outside long enough for symptoms to manifest as I travel to and from my car. Maybe the case could be made for fighter pilots (though I still think it's a non-issue for 99% of people with seasona…

> How is that much different from a heavy cargo plane? 1. Deployed environments are often less than pretty. There's pretty much no comparison between a peacetime US/Europe life and wartime, even at airbases. 2. In the military, aircrews are expected to go down behind enemy lines, regardless of how often it happens against terrorist groups. They want to maximize your probability of survival after the crash/shootdown.…

Well, all that's going to do is create an incentive to lie about your medical history so you don't get DQ'd and/or artificially limit the size of your pilot candidate pool, thus creating an even bigger shortage.

Non-pilot millitary personnel get deployed and are on the ground in war zones 10x more than pilots (especially in the army) and they aren't disqualified for having allergies.

It's just not a big deal except in the most egregious of hay fever cases

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#139

Post by yutyut »

umvi wrote: post #134
souprock wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the F-22 uses air that is oxygen-enriched by a mechanical device that does some sort of filtering/diffusion process. Picture this: It's time to go fly. The alarm is going off, and you need to get in your jet. Boogers are streaming down your face, and you are experiencing sneezing fits that have you bent over with your eyes closing and tearing up. You can put on a mask with nice clean air, but it'll take an…

Not all allergies are like that. I would wager the vast majority are pretty mild symptoms easily treatable with anti-histamines. I myself have allergies, but I never even notice because the air at work is filtered and I'm not outside long enough for symptoms to manifest as I travel to and from my car. Maybe the case could be made for fighter pilots (though I still think it's a non-issue for 99% of people with seasona…

While I don't agree with the initial assertion of Oxygen masks being incompatible with seasonal allergies I will say that the Docs are looking to disqualify you as early in the pipeline as possible, reason being: $$$. In addition, the only times I've heard of specific pipeline disqualification is if you "anthro out" of certain aircraft, i.e too big or too small for the cockpit.

Source: Marine Pilot.

Re: New study shows grim outlook for future of Air Force pilot shortage

#140

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

vgoh1 wrote: post #56

I can't fathom how the answer to the pilot shortage couldn't simply be "pay them more". They are flying $100 million dollar planes, pilot salary must be a drop in the bucket.

The ultimate answer to any skill shortage is always going to be "pay them more." However, that falls apart quickly, so the problem is finding a better answer.
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