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AMP pages displaying your own domain

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Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#291

Post by tracker1 »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #183
Tepix wrote: post #180

Using the signed exchange mechanism means you allow anyone to serve your content. You will no longer know when it has been served and by whom. Instead, Google will know more about what your users are consuming on your website than you - despite HTTPS! Also, there is no mechanism to limit who is allowed to serve your content for you. I see no technical reason why the content has to be prefetched from Google instead of…

Amp does allow Google analytics and other analytics services. Unfortunately, most places don't use server logs for much :(

A bit more on this... there are a LOT of secondary bots out there, either searching for security holes to exploit or otherwise slurping content for reasons other than search.

JS based analytics (google or otherwise) is generally a better option for detecting actual usage. Yeah, you lose maybe 2% of actual users. You also lose 99% of the various bots. You still have to filter google's and bing's bots that execute JS though.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#292

Post by kuschku »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #252
kuschku wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On a mobile device in India? Nonsense. Your page load time is dominated by latency, which the AMP user doesn't see because it is preloaded from near caches. My test device is a Huawei Ideos X3 on a 56kbit/s throttled 3G connection. The same effect also applies with a Pixel 1 on the same connection, or either of the devices on a modern 3.9G LTE connection. (Tested on O2 net in Germany, works reliably better than AMP…

> AMP uses megabytes of JS for that purpose What? Where are you pulling these numbers? Also, what do you mean by hot cache? I'm starting to suspect that you don't even understand that the AMP page (the JavaScript for sure, and often the entire HTML and above-the-fold images as well) is already on the user's device, while your page is not.

If the AMP version takes longer to load than the time between the search results loading and the user clicking on it, then the AMP version will still have a visible load time.

Obviously, this part is affected by the AMP js being in cache or not.

Still, often my own page can load faster than just this user-visible part of loading the AMP version.

AMP works best when the user visits almost only AMP pages (so the resources stay in cache), and the user has a high-latency high-bandwidth connection.

But that's almost nowhere in the world true, in reality most people have relatively low latency with low bandwidth.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#293

Post by [deleted] »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #154
jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

Because literally the entire private reason for AMP is a power grab. Not the public reason, but absolutely the private reason. If Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, or whatever publicly traded company makes a move its for money and power and preferably power, since that yields even more money. AMP on web and email is the perfection of embrace, extend and extinguish

[deleted]

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#294

Post by fartcannon »

jefftk wrote: post #281
fartcannon wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you personally feel about AMP? It looks like an attempt to make the web a walled garden.

AMP has a lot of things all together, some of which I like: * I like that when AMP is used for ads then the ads are fully declarative. Advertisers getting to run custom javascript, even in a cross-domain iframe, isn't great. * I like that AMP allows sites (currently primarily search engines) to trigger preloading in a way that doesn't leak information to the site that is being preloaded. * I like the way things like…

I guess the question is: Do you trust google to treat non-AMP pages the same as AMP pages?

If they don't/won't, no matter what your justification for why is (you believe it will provide speed, security, whatever), that's one of the walls.

Sure, you can not use it, but does that limit your ability to be found on the internet? If yes, then there's that wall again.

They're in the extend stage of Microsoft's favourite strategy.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#295

Post by zavi »

IgorPartola wrote: post #206

I can’t believe there is no way to opt out of AMP as the end user. The UX is so terrible. Often times I will search for something and have a Reddit result come back. When I tap the link, I get the AMP page which: * does not show all comments, often ones I am actually looking for * does not let me collapse comment sections * uses the default white background theme which burns my retinas if I am looking at my phone in…

Sounds like a criticism of Reddit moreso than AMP.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#296

Post by nialv7 »

jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

"Oh, you don't like the AMP url? OK, how about, we solve this problem, BY MAKING YOUR BROWSER LIE TO YOU. How does that sound?" - Google, probably.

If you look back, Google has made multiple attempts at "improving" the url. It starts to become clear what they are trying to do now.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#299

Post by m-p-3 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #206

I can’t believe there is no way to opt out of AMP as the end user. The UX is so terrible. Often times I will search for something and have a Reddit result come back. When I tap the link, I get the AMP page which: * does not show all comments, often ones I am actually looking for * does not let me collapse comment sections * uses the default white background theme which burns my retinas if I am looking at my phone in…

I use Firefox, DuckDuckGo and Redirect AMP to HTML https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/amp2html/ everywhere I can, including mobile.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#300

Post by eitally »

driverdan wrote: post #249
eitally wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. It's designed to make the user experience better on sites that frequently host Google ads (and also often contain a ton of bloat, 3rd party js, poorly constructed DOMs, awful CSS, etc). The only way Google could proactively "solve" this problem was by creating a "standard", and then also offering to absorb end user traffic for sites that adopted the standard. FWIW, AMP is an open standard not solely owne…

> FWIW, AMP is an open standard not solely owned or contributed to by Google. > https://amp.dev/ amp.dev is owned and controlled by Google. ampproject.org is owned and controlled by Google. The core AMP team are Google employees. How can you possibly say it's not owned by Google?

I don't believe either of these statements is true: "ampproject.org is ... controlled by Google. The core AMP team are Google employees."

https://blog.amp.dev/2018/09/18/governance/

The TSC is independent and, at this point, the committee code commits are almost 4x the volume of Googler commits.

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