People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly • Hacker News Board

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#21

Post by davidw » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

aNoob7000 wrote: post #5

Health insurance in the United States is a shit show. The Medicare for all that Bernie is proposing is a reaction to the inability of Congress to meaningfully fix the issue. I personally would prefer a market based approach to fixing the issues with obtaining medical care, but Congress can't do anything because there's just too much money and influence involved.

Italy has a thriving market based private health care industry. You can call in and get prices and everything.

Just that it's in addition to the single payer system, which means the private one is cheap because the competition is 'free'.

As a % of GDP, Italy spends a lot less than the US in health care, and people live long and productive lives.

I mention Italy because 1) I lived there and 2) it's not some perfectly run place where everything works. It's not, and yet the health care is still better, overall, than in the US.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#22

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #15

terryschiavo22 wrote: post #2

Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Is the argument that switching insurance plans is stressful? What's stressful is remaining uncovered. Switching plans is hardly comparable to the transition to a Medicare-for-all program.

> Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Lets say you payed for insurance, but were healthy for the 90s. So ~10-years of paying insurance. Around 2005, you are diagnosed with Diabetes, so your insurance pays for your care. Around 2007, the recession happens and you lose your job. You immediately find a new job, but you need to get new insu…

If you find a new job and you’re eligible under group insurance, the insurance company can’t deny a claim under pre-existing conditions. This was true before the ACA. What the ACA changed was that insurance companies couldn’t exclude treatment based on preexisting conditions if you go on the open market.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#23

Post by guitarbill » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

jwildeboer wrote: post #9

People [in the US] … ;)

As much as your comment might be taken in the wrong way, it is important to point out first world countries have this sorted. I simply don't get it. When did patriotism become about military might and waving flags instead of making sure your fellow countrymen don't live in agony, fear, and poverty?

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#24

Post by benatkin » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #15

terryschiavo22 wrote: post #2

Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Is the argument that switching insurance plans is stressful? What's stressful is remaining uncovered. Switching plans is hardly comparable to the transition to a Medicare-for-all program.

> Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Lets say you payed for insurance, but were healthy for the 90s. So ~10-years of paying insurance. Around 2005, you are diagnosed with Diabetes, so your insurance pays for your care. Around 2007, the recession happens and you lose your job. You immediately find a new job, but you need to get new insu…

That’s been ameliorated somewhat by ACA and is the only reason I think it’s an improvement even though my premiums have gone up. There’s all sorts of pre-existing conditions, and healthcare with the threat of retroactive recision if they feel your application was incomplete ought to feel insecure to just about anyone.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#25

Post by dv_dt » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #21

aNoob7000 wrote: post #5

Health insurance in the United States is a shit show. The Medicare for all that Bernie is proposing is a reaction to the inability of Congress to meaningfully fix the issue. I personally would prefer a market based approach to fixing the issues with obtaining medical care, but Congress can't do anything because there's just too much money and influence involved.

Italy has a thriving market based private health care industry. You can call in and get prices and everything. Just that it's in addition to the single payer system, which means the private one is cheap because the competition is 'free'. As a % of GDP, Italy spends a lot less than the US in health care, and people live long and productive lives. I mention Italy because 1) I lived there and 2) it's not some perfectly…

All other first world nations pay less. On average they pay less than half what the US pays. The fully socialized systems, like the UK, seem to trend lower in cost, as low as one third the cost of the US. But really, the takeaway should be you need universal healthcare with significant government cost controls on drugs and procedures, after that almost any arrangement of public/private administration works (but the caveat that it looks like the more private companies are in the healthcare mix, the higher the costs seem to run).

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#26

Post by dv_dt » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

benatkin wrote: post #24

dragontamer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Lets say you payed for insurance, but were healthy for the 90s. So ~10-years of paying insurance. Around 2005, you are diagnosed with Diabetes, so your insurance pays for your care. Around 2007, the recession happens and you lose your job. You immediately find a new job, but you need to get new insu…

That’s been ameliorated somewhat by ACA and is the only reason I think it’s an improvement even though my premiums have gone up. There’s all sorts of pre-existing conditions, and healthcare with the threat of retroactive recision if they feel your application was incomplete ought to feel insecure to just about anyone.

Somewhat, but people with insurance are still the largest group of people with medical bankruptcies.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#27

Post by maxsilver » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

terryschiavo22 wrote: post #2

Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Is the argument that switching insurance plans is stressful? What's stressful is remaining uncovered. Switching plans is hardly comparable to the transition to a Medicare-for-all program.

> and then immediately sign onto their new plan

Nope. Employer-provided insurance plans often have blackout dates.

If you quit your job on June 2, and start your new job on June 3, your new job's health insurance might not actually take effect for up to 30, 60, or even 90 days after your start date.

To cover that gap period, you either have to switch to a new plan with your old employer (commonly called COBRA) at ridiculous high rates nobody can afford, or you have to get temporary blackout insurance coverage (which cover nothing at all, and are almost identical to having no insurance).

This need is so common, that most insurance companies have special advertising just for it (like https://www.priorityhealth.com/individual-family-health-insu... for example).

In America, to switch jobs once, requires three concurrent interactions with three different health insurance plans, simultaneously. (Your old employer plan, your intermediate temporary plan/COBRA, and your new employer's plan). For obvious reasons, this is incredibly error prone, risky, and fraught with stress.

> Is the argument that switching insurance plans is stressful?

Yes! Literally every single interaction with every single health insurance provider is painful and stressful and complicated and intentionally obfuscated, for absolutely no valid reason whatsoever.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#28

Post by a3n » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

terryschiavo22 wrote: post #2

Yes, people do lose their insurance constantly when they switch jobs...and then immediately sign onto their new plan. Is the argument that switching insurance plans is stressful? What's stressful is remaining uncovered. Switching plans is hardly comparable to the transition to a Medicare-for-all program.

When I started my current job I wasn't eligible for benefits for 90 days. This is not uncommon.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#29

Post by JustSomeNobody » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #14

aNoob7000 wrote: post #5

Health insurance in the United States is a shit show. The Medicare for all that Bernie is proposing is a reaction to the inability of Congress to meaningfully fix the issue. I personally would prefer a market based approach to fixing the issues with obtaining medical care, but Congress can't do anything because there's just too much money and influence involved.

> The Medicare for all that Bernie is proposing is a reaction to the inability of Congress to meaningfully fix the issue. Wouldn't expanding Medicare to all also require an act of Congress? Bernie will have the influence of the White House, which is important, but it doesn't change the fact that Congress is still the body that would need to fix this. I've always felt like the Affordable Care Act was a bandaid almost…

> ... inability of Congress to meaningfully fix the issue.

They'll never fix it. As long as there is a mentality that the poor are poor because they make bad life choices and thus should receive as little support as possible as a punishment, nothing will change because any change that would give everyone basic healthcare would also mean helping the poor.

Re: People Lose Their Employer-Sponsored Insurance Constantly

#30

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

gorbachev wrote: post #10

aNoob7000 wrote: post #5

Health insurance in the United States is a shit show. The Medicare for all that Bernie is proposing is a reaction to the inability of Congress to meaningfully fix the issue. I personally would prefer a market based approach to fixing the issues with obtaining medical care, but Congress can't do anything because there's just too much money and influence involved.

The insurance companies have had years (decades?) to come up with one. Instead they've invested in lobbying to keep the status quo.

It mostly benefits big businesses to have employer based insurance.