Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AMP pages displaying your own domain

webmasters.googleblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 340 posts

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#261

Post by codedokode »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #257
codedokode wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google already can do this by preloading a cached page from its own domain. So this specification is unnecessary. I think the real reason is that Google wants to build a walled garden, but doesn't want the walls to be noticeable. Even with AMP, they display a header that looks like a browser's address bar [1] Also, on that page Google admits that it uses AMP Viewer to collect information about users: > Data collectio…

> Google already can do this by preloading a cached page from its own domain. That's what AMP already did. This spec is better because it ensures publishers retain control over their own content, and doesn't confuse users by showing "www.google.com" in the URL bar for content that didn't originate from Google.

Publisher might want to display their URL in the address bar. But as a user I want to see the actual URL, not what Google or publisher want to show me. I don't want to see "example.com" in the address bar while I am actually connected to Google via a TLS connection signed by Google's key and my IP address is collected according to Google's privacy policy.

What confuses users is Google displaying a fake address bar [1] or browser displaying the wrong URL.

[1] https://developers.google.com/search/docs/guides/images/amp0...

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#262

Post by Ajedi32 »

codedokode wrote: post #232

It's ridiculous. Google wants to keep users at its domain so much that it invents a whole technology to substitute address bar contents. This shows how harmful it is when a company has a significant market share in several different areas (browsers and search engines). I hope at least Mozilla doesn't adopt this technology and will show the true URL. This technology is complicated. Browser vendors have to implement al…

This is the exact opposite of "keeping users at its domain". That was the situation _before_ they implemented this standard. Now users will get sent to the publisher's domain instead (via a prefetched page load).

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#263

Post by [deleted] »

mthoms wrote: post #88
millstone wrote: post #35

The headline is an outright lie: these AMP pages are loaded from Google and not your domain. The new feature is that Google's browser displays your domain, obscuring the fact that Google is doing the serving. The change is what is displayed, not the server.

Indeed. If a web page is being served or loaded "from your own domain" that implies something very specific. What Google actually means here is "We make AMP pages _appear_ to come from your own domain". That's something entirely different. This whole thing is just more doublespeak.

[deleted]

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#264

Post by Ajedi32 »

codedokode wrote: post #261
Ajedi32 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google already can do this by preloading a cached page from its own domain. That's what AMP already did. This spec is better because it ensures publishers retain control over their own content, and doesn't confuse users by showing "www.google.com" in the URL bar for content that didn't originate from Google.

Publisher might want to display their URL in the address bar. But as a user I want to see the actual URL, not what Google or publisher want to show me. I don't want to see "example.com" in the address bar while I am actually connected to Google via a TLS connection signed by Google's key and my IP address is collected according to Google's privacy policy. What confuses users is Google displaying a fake address bar [1…

The URL you see _is_ the actual URL. It doesn't matter where the content was initially loaded from because the page is signed by the publisher's private key (the publisher has full control over the page contents, Google can't alter it).

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#265

Post by lucb1e »

codedokode wrote: post #232

It's ridiculous. Google wants to keep users at its domain so much that it invents a whole technology to substitute address bar contents. This shows how harmful it is when a company has a significant market share in several different areas (browsers and search engines). I hope at least Mozilla doesn't adopt this technology and will show the true URL. This technology is complicated. Browser vendors have to implement al…

Indeed, Google just has too much market share.

Last week I blocked Google from my domains (blog: lucb1e.com/!130), hopefully others will follow suit and degrade the search quality until people get better results (at least for some more obscure content) elsewhere, or perhaps until Google notices we are really not okay with their behaviour.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#267

Post by dbbk »

smilliken wrote: post #209
IgorPartola wrote: post #206

I can’t believe there is no way to opt out of AMP as the end user. The UX is so terrible. Often times I will search for something and have a Reddit result come back. When I tap the link, I get the AMP page which: * does not show all comments, often ones I am actually looking for * does not let me collapse comment sections * uses the default white background theme which burns my retinas if I am looking at my phone in…

You won't see AMP if you switch search engines.

Bing implements AMP, and there's nothing technically stopping other search engines from adding support.

Also, links in the Twitter app default to AMP as well.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#268

Post by jefftk »

tcd wrote: post #223
jefftk wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as if the lift of transforming HTML into AMP HTML wasn't already big enough for your average web site owner, implementing signed exchanges will be over the head of 99% of the folks building web pages on the Web Converting web pages into AMP isn't something you can automate, but supporting signed exchanges is. You need certificate authorities to support the flag and web servers support the protocol, but if this catc…

Well, it's disappointing DigiCert didn't tell Google to fuck off. I hope this never comes to something like Let's Encrypt, so the vast majority of developers can never use this. Sometimes, Google needs a gentle nudge from users saying "we don't like this" and hope they reconsider (I doubt it).

> I hope this never comes to something like Let's Encrypt, so the vast majority of developers can never use this.

Let's Encrypt's response:

    I think it’s likely too early in
    this draft’s development for Let’s
    Encrypt to prioritize implementation.
    It looks like it has a ways to go
    within the IETF before it would be
    an internet standard.
https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/cansignhttpexchanges-ext...

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#269

Post by codedokode »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #264
codedokode wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publisher might want to display their URL in the address bar. But as a user I want to see the actual URL, not what Google or publisher want to show me. I don't want to see "example.com" in the address bar while I am actually connected to Google via a TLS connection signed by Google's key and my IP address is collected according to Google's privacy policy. What confuses users is Google displaying a fake address bar [1…

The URL you see _is_ the actual URL. It doesn't matter where the content was initially loaded from because the page is signed by the publisher's private key (the publisher has full control over the page contents, Google can't alter it).

The content is served from Google's servers according to Google's (not publisher's) privacy policy. While Google cannot alter the content, it sees the unencrypted HTTP request. I don't want neither Google nor publisher to control contents of my address bar.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#270

Post by codedokode »

jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

This is actually the opposite: users are deceived because they think they connect to publisher's site but in fact they are still inside Google's walled garden. Their data are collected according to Google's privacy policy but it is difficult to spot looking at the address bar.

Also, Google controlling AMP means that Google decides what analytic systems and ad networks are allowed on the AMP page. With Google having its own ads and analytics business, doesn't this tempt them to make life little easier for its own products and little more difficult for competitors'?

Post reply on HN