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AMP pages displaying your own domain

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Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#191

Post by AlexandrB »

sametmax wrote: post #90
mthoms wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. If a web page is being served or loaded "from your own domain" that implies something very specific. What Google actually means here is "We make AMP pages _appear_ to come from your own domain". That's something entirely different. This whole thing is just more doublespeak.

It's even worse than that. When I had a website with embed videos from other sites, I had user contacting me because the other sites had some problems. They couldn't tell the difference between megavideo/youtube/dailymotion content and my site, so they came to me and blamed me. So what this means is that not only Google bullies you into putting your traffic under their control, but now, any problem on their part will…

> So what this means is that not only Google bullies you into putting your traffic under their control, but now, any problem on their part will be blamed on you by the user.

I hadn't even considered that. Add to this Google's notoriously absent customer support department and you have a recipe for a lot of frustration.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#192

Post by jsnell »

AlexandrB wrote: post #173
jsnell wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're loading the content from the originating site, surely there's no benefit at all to signing. If you're loading the content directly from the site, the browser just needs TLS to verify the integrity of the content. And you're also back to the situation where you can't preload the content in a controlled manner or privacy-preserving manner, nor have the page-speed guarantees since the version being served to t…

> And you're also back to the situation where you can't preload the content in a controlled manner or privacy-preserving manner... A few people have pointed out the privacy-preserving aspect of AMP. I'm not sure I get how that's the case. Is this referring to the fact that the page is not being pre-loaded from the content owner's own webserver? The main privacy violators on the internet are Google and Facebook. How i…

If the browser were to prefetch search results, it would leak information to all the result pages about the user having done that search. (I once had a blog post accidentally rank on the first page for "XXX". I really don't want to know who is searching for that particular term.)

Google has to know what you're searching for to compute and show the results. So there are few additional privacy implications from the preload.

And your last case is exactly what will no longer happen. People will now copy-paste the original URL rather than the cache URL. Click on the link, and you're taken to the original site.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#193

Post by untog »

mrweasel wrote: post #132
albertgoeswoof wrote: post #7

Let’s hope AMP, like most google products, is shut down within the next 2-3 years

What's wrong with it exactly... beside being weird. I'm not a fan of manipulating the URL the way they do with this change, but couldn't you just opt to not use AMP if you don't like it? Ideally people would develop fast sites on their own, but apparently they need the help of Google.

If you don't use AMP your search engine placement suffers. Often dramatically, as all the pages in Google's top-most carousel are all AMP pages.

And AMP is a pain in the ass. It's sold as being "just HTML" but it isn't, really. You can't even use an tag, it has to be . So you have to generate two versions of every page. Achievable for large companies but if you don't have a lot of resources that's a big overhead. As is so often the case, it helps concentrate all web traffic to a smaller and smaller number of sites/publishers and shutting the rest out. That's not good.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#194

Post by AlexandrB »

notatoad wrote: post #9
skilled wrote: post #3

I wonder if Google is self-aware to the fact that majority of webmasters don't give a shit about AMP.

I wonder if any webmasters are self aware that their users like amp

I wonder if Google is self aware that at least some of their users hate amp and wish they could disable it globally.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#195

Post by andy_ppp »

gregable wrote: post #181
AlexandrB wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you're also back to the situation where you can't preload the content in a controlled manner or privacy-preserving manner... A few people have pointed out the privacy-preserving aspect of AMP. I'm not sure I get how that's the case. Is this referring to the fact that the page is not being pre-loaded from the content owner's own webserver? The main privacy violators on the internet are Google and Facebook. How i…

Good question. If you make a search query, but have not clicked on any results, you have a privacy expectation that the web servers of the search results you have not clicked on will not know you performed this query, your ip address, cookie, etc. For example, if you search for [headache] and then close the window, mayoclinic.com knowing that you made this query would probably be a surprising result. With naive prelo…

Yes, exactly why people think this is creepy. I also expect you not to start using battery rendering shit I haven’t asked you to in the background or data that again you don’t have permission to use. Just because the majority of users don’t care doesn’t mean you gregable are not corrupting the foundation of a free web. I still feel you’re making the web super creepy, grabbing extra data and the whole project focused could be accomplished without this embrace and extend - derank slow pages more aggressively doesn’t lead to a two tier web and doesn’t tie everyone further into Google’s brain washing algorithms. But this “solution” to the problem at least for now Chrome doesn’t visit Google for these new style links from elsewhere so at least that is some improvement. The fact this whole project should not exist and adds zero value and I can’t opt out is a massive problem for me.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#196

Post by andy_ppp »

jsnell wrote: post #192
AlexandrB wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you're also back to the situation where you can't preload the content in a controlled manner or privacy-preserving manner... A few people have pointed out the privacy-preserving aspect of AMP. I'm not sure I get how that's the case. Is this referring to the fact that the page is not being pre-loaded from the content owner's own webserver? The main privacy violators on the internet are Google and Facebook. How i…

If the browser were to prefetch search results, it would leak information to all the result pages about the user having done that search. (I once had a blog post accidentally rank on the first page for "XXX". I really don't want to know who is searching for that particular term.) Google has to know what you're searching for to compute and show the results. So there are few additional privacy implications from the pre…

Then don’t cache stuff that you haven’t told the user you are caching from third party sites.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#197

Post by dbbk »

jedieaston wrote: post #175
dbbk wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As bad as the URLs were, at least you could edit them to get back to the non-AMP version if you were technically literate enough. Now there'll be no distinction, you could get sent to an AMP link from Google which is a lesser experience than the 'real' site and have no way of getting out.

Can't you just click the link at the top right that will send you to the real page as it does today?

I believe they said that bar would be going away once they rolled out 'real URLs'.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#198

Post by AlexandrB »

kuschku wrote: post #48
lern_too_spel wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users like pages that load instantly, which AMP is a requirement for (via preloading).

AMP pages loaded through Google search with hot cache load slower than some of the websites I've developed when loaded with cold cache. It's absurdly slow, uses tons of unnecessary JS, and it is a privacy nightmare because now I can't just use server-side GDPR and ePrivacy guideline compliant analytics anymore, but either have to give up analytics entirely, or have to use privacy-obliterating Google Analytics. And if…

> AMP pages loaded through Google search with hot cache load slower than some of the websites I've developed when loaded with cold cache.

Basically this. AMP sets a hard upper bound for how fast your webpage can be. Have a purely static HTML+CSS blog but want to get the page rank boost from AMP? Just add reams of unnecessary Google Javascript to what should be a very simple site.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#199

Post by jedberg »

luckylion wrote: post #157
jedberg wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when there is a CDN there, "who I'm talking to" is really just an intermediary who pretends to be you, and may have in fact modified the content. With this, it is still an intermediary pretending to be you, but at least now the package is signed and can be verified.

The CDN is you, for all intents and purposes. It's your agent in the back and forth, as much as your hosting provider would be. A third-party cache isn't. I don't mind that you can sign and verify content, that's fine and useful. I'm just not a fan of changing the address bar's meaning.

But what I'm saying is that the meaning that you ascribe to the address bar is incorrect -- it already only tells you who published the content, not who you are actually connected to.

What I'm saying is that this does not change the meaning of what's in the URL bar. It's the same as before. It tells you who published the content originally.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#200

Post by hknd »

Tepix wrote: post #180

Using the signed exchange mechanism means you allow anyone to serve your content. You will no longer know when it has been served and by whom. Instead, Google will know more about what your users are consuming on your website than you - despite HTTPS! Also, there is no mechanism to limit who is allowed to serve your content for you. I see no technical reason why the content has to be prefetched from Google instead of…

The caching doesn't necessary need to be by Google.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-amp-real-url/

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