Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details • Hacker News Board

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#221

Post by freeflight » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 11:29 AM UTC

mncharity wrote: post #193

Why 8K? Perhaps VR. VR can be bandwidth intensive. VR immersive-gaming low-end headsets are 60 fps, and high-end are 90 fps. And I've been told 120 fps is a noticeable "like butter" improvement on 90 fps. So a 8K@30 might mean 4K@120. VR lenses piss away pixels. With a current 1440x1440/eye, you might get only a ~500 pixel circle of crisply clear pixels. So if you want screen-comparable resolution you're all set now.…

Doubtful, afaik consoles use hardware upscalers for high-end resolutions like 4k because the hardware would struggle with natively rendering such resolutions, as even PC hardware does.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#222

Post by freeflight » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 11:45 AM UTC

llbowers wrote: post #135

Is there any prediction on the future of stand-alone gaming consoles with 5G and streaming games(e.g., Google Stadia) coming soon? While I'm not really much of a gamer now I spent a lot of my childhood playing video games and the thought of dedicated home game consoles going the way of arcades makes me sad. I think I'll finally pick up that Switch I've been planning on...

The thing is Stadia does nothing new, StreamOn comes to mind just like pretty much every major player in the industry running their own thing, even Nvidia.

Granted: If anybody can make it work, it's gonna be Google, but I'm still quite skeptical. For many consumers network bandwidth and traffic volume are still very real issues, and there's not that much Google can do about that on a global scale, at least in the short time-frame.

Long-term they would have to roll out Google fiber on a global scale and pretty much go into the ISP business with full commitment, which I just don't see happening because Google fiber is dead.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#223

Post by 013a » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 12:51 PM UTC

phonon wrote: post #80

cjf4 wrote: post #51

Interesting that while Microsoft and now Google are building platforms that are de-emphasizing local hardware, Sony recognizes this as an opportunity to differentiate by focusing on how great their box is. Their was a passing reference to a "cloud strategy", but there hasn't been as much evidence as their competitors. This will wind up making for the most interesting console generation since the 32/64 bit era, since…

That's because Sony has already been doing cloud streaming for years. They bought Gaikai in 2012 and offer streaming through PlayStation Now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaikai https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/playstation-now/

They also bought OnLive in 2015.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#224

Post by dTal » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #167

vvillena wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS5 will support 8K just like PS3 supported 1080p: it was there but almost no one used it. Nearly every game opted for 720p instead. It's a way to future-proof the generation, allowing for a future enhanced version of the console.

Cautionary tale: the PS4 Pro retroactively dropped support for many early 4K displays, including my own, in a software update. The updates were hardware fused to prevent downgrading, of course. My plan for 8k is to wait for mass market adoption before buying one and hooking it up to a DRM-box built by a company with foreseeable financial interest in "stimulating" display upgrades during a down quarter.

Lest we forget, Sony also sold PS3s with the advertised feature of Linux support, which was later removed in a firmware update. The same Sony which sold audio CDs with rootkits.

I miss the idealistic days when hackers held grudges. Don't buy Sony. They are the enemy.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#225

Post by dTal » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

gspetr wrote: post #166

pwthornton wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all video game consoles are sold at a loss -- sometimes a huge loss in the first few years. Making money on console hardware has never been the name of the game. Every game sold for a Playstation comes with a licensing fee. It's in Sony's best interest to sell as many games as possible, which often means selling consoles at a loss. Sony and other hardware makers also sell a lot of accessories, which often have…

> Selling hardware at a loss is one reason that consoles have always punched much higher graphically relative to price. Here's a 2 year old video comparing a $550 PC (with RX480) to PS4 Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HueyUmSHrdo Also, PS4 Pro specs list its GPU perf at 4.2 Tflops, while a GTX 1080, worth $499 and predating PS4 Pro by half a year has 8.2 Tflops. It's in the ballpark of 3.8Tflops of GTX 1060, MSR…

A console's value is about much more than performance. Consoles are for people who want a streamlined experience. Desktop operating systems don't make comfortable couch gaming systems. With a console, you can control the entire system with a simple controller from across the room, and you never have to worry about what's under the hood.

It's the same reason people pay a premium for Apple products even when they're strictly less functional - they're nicer to use.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#226

Post by Konnstann » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

Konnstann wrote: post #3

A lot of the things they revealed about the Ps5 don't really "wow" me. The system better be backwards-compatible, consoles these days are pretty much more custom PCs, there shouldn't be a problem with backwards-compatibility. Switching to SSD is also a no-brainer, getting better load times as a result of using better hardware isn't that big of an accomplishment, and you could get that performance increase even with a…

Sorry, I knew it was backwards-compatible, my point was that given that AMD powered the Ps4, backwards compatibility shouldn't be something you parade around. Ps3/Ps2 backwards compatibility is impressive, however.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#227

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #203

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can't see a way to fake Dolby Vision - it's pretty obvious when you're getting the extra dynamic range from the image - I'm surprised by how much more apparent it is than 4k. I can see resolution fakery, but that's why I asked if they thought it was possible to scale down the 4k Dolby Vision to 1080p Dolby Vision

I mean, you can definitely fake Dolby Vision. The Apple TV 4K has an option to always output Dolby Vision, and they do their own tone mapping to output normal HDR or SDR content in Dolby Vision. I don't use this feature, and it had pretty terrible reviews at launch (although I heard they have improved it). But yeah, I think the actual presence of additional dynamic range is pretty noticeable for most well-produced co…

Netflix could fake Dolby Vision by dumping MORE data in than was in the original stream - that seems like a wasteful way to cut corners.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#228

Post by 013a » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

cjf4 wrote: post #51

Interesting that while Microsoft and now Google are building platforms that are de-emphasizing local hardware, Sony recognizes this as an opportunity to differentiate by focusing on how great their box is. Their was a passing reference to a "cloud strategy", but there hasn't been as much evidence as their competitors. This will wind up making for the most interesting console generation since the 32/64 bit era, since…

To be fair: Microsoft has the most powerful "local hardware" out there right now, with the One X. Though, having both a One X and a PS4P, while multiplatform games like RDR2 definitely look better on the One X, there are some games (like GoW or HZD) that, to my eye, look better than anything the One X has. Their rumored next-gen hardware (keyword is Project Scarlett) has two rumored consoles codenamed Lockhart and Anaconda, which aims to bring One X performance to a lower price point, and introduce a new console even more powerful than the One X.

In other words, they aren't giving up on local hardware; Microsoft is big enough to do both.

More opinionated point here, but I really think this current generation will go down in history as the most interesting console generation of all time. Its the first generation that's felt like every player is just innovating their fucking heart out and truly pushing what consoles are capable of, while simultaneously releasing literally the highest quality games ever made during any generation. We're in a golden age right now.

With Stadia and, honestly, Apple Arcade kind of competing in the "next generation" of consoles, there are more players than ever, but the narrative will still be driven by Sony and Nintendo. American tech companies get a lot of mindshare, but the reality is that every single Playstation couch console has outsold every single Xbox console, even if you compare cross-generation. PSN is the world's most active gaming community. The reason is the Games. American tech companies get SO DISTRACTED by all this technology and value add services, but American companies just don't get the games right, especially this generation. Stadia can throw money at the problem, but Microsoft has been doing that for years and all they've ended up with is their Three Big Studios (343, The Coalition, Turn10/Playground). Compared to the breadth and more importantly quality of Sony's and Nintendo's studios, the attempt isn't enough. Stadia just can't enter at the 11th hour and expect to do better.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#229

Post by melling » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #208

melling wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m only moving my hands. I can still move my hands while resting my arms. I think you should watch the Soli video again. I’m getting tired of repeating myself. No affiliation with Google or Soli. I keep repeating it because you seem to to be hung up with the extended arm motion and “gorilla arm” MIT has done some gesture UI work. Don’t know much about it: http://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/

From what I could see from the Soli page, all the video showed people with arms in the air not resting on anything. OK, there’s one quick shot of a resting arm at 3min 36sec on the longer video. But all this is irrelevant to the original issue, which is specifically about large-scale arm-based movements as exemplified by Minority Report. I can’t see how those, specifically, can ever be practical. > I’m getting tired…

No, I didn't specifically want "Minority Report". I clarified that immediately in my first followup.

And it's ok if you don't see the value in a gesture UI.

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm not really sure why you feel the repeated need to tell me I don't need one.

Re: Sony reveals PlayStation 5 details

#230

Post by teddyh » Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 2:56 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #229

teddyh wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I could see from the Soli page, all the video showed people with arms in the air not resting on anything. OK, there’s one quick shot of a resting arm at 3min 36sec on the longer video. But all this is irrelevant to the original issue, which is specifically about large-scale arm-based movements as exemplified by Minority Report. I can’t see how those, specifically, can ever be practical. > I’m getting tired…

No, I didn't specifically want "Minority Report". I clarified that immediately in my first followup. And it's ok if you don't see the value in a gesture UI. I'm not trying to convince you. I'm not really sure why you feel the repeated need to tell me I don't need one.

> I clarified that immediately in my first followup.

Where? I don’t see it. On the contrary, you doubled down by saying “Jarvis”, and gave a link, which, as I said previously, is exactly the same style of interface as in Minority Report, and has the same problem. You also said that you thought that the Soli technology could make the Minority Report interface “achievable”.

Later, when we were discussing the Soli interface specifically, you said “I’m only moving my hands. I can still move my hands while resting my arms.”, but you never said that Soli is what you wanted.

So if you, contrary to what you originally wrote, don’t want Minority Report and/or Jarvis, what do you want? Soli? That style might possibly work, but I remain skeptical; I would have to be convinced that Soli does not suffer from the gorilla arm problem, since nothing in the Soli demo video seem to show a comfortable mode of working for extended periods, only spiffy short-term interactions.