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AMP pages displaying your own domain

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Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#141

Post by jxdxbx »

jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

the preloading and caching seems like a marginal speed boost. the main win from AMP is just the stripped-down format, which does not require the cache.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#142

Post by delroth »

cannedslime wrote: post #135
jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

My biggest quarrel with this is that its just another way for google to take control over the internet. Does any other search provider than google use AMP? Does any browser other than googles own support this? How busy are you? You can't wait 0.5 seconds for an HTTP request? And you think its worth feeding google with more precise data about your movements online than they already have? And as a business integrating…

https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introdu...

Disclaimer: I work at Google, nothing related to AMP or search.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#143

Post by cannedslime »

eitally wrote: post #24
stephenr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users like pages that load quickly, which amp is not a requirement for. Amp is designed to tighten googles grip on the web, nothing more.

No it isn't. It's designed to make the user experience better on sites that frequently host Google ads (and also often contain a ton of bloat, 3rd party js, poorly constructed DOMs, awful CSS, etc). The only way Google could proactively "solve" this problem was by creating a "standard", and then also offering to absorb end user traffic for sites that adopted the standard. FWIW, AMP is an open standard not solely owne…

So the solution to the shitty state of google ads is to submits to google and implement their new shitty product?

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#144

Post by abraham »

tW4r wrote: post #129
gregable wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a little confusion here, understandable. Google search will not show these signed exchanges in an iframe, the pages are full frame. Try it for yourself. Using Chrome 73 or later (you probably already have this), and a mobile browser (either a phone or mobile emulation), try the query [amp dev success stories]. It will only use signed exchanges in Chrome because currently only Chrome supports signed exchanges…

Forgive my lack of know-how, but does this theoretically mean I could download this _signed package_ to my computer along with the signature and use it later to prove that the information was provided by the source according to the signature?

Yes

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#145

Post by themacguffinman »

tW4r wrote: post #129
gregable wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a little confusion here, understandable. Google search will not show these signed exchanges in an iframe, the pages are full frame. Try it for yourself. Using Chrome 73 or later (you probably already have this), and a mobile browser (either a phone or mobile emulation), try the query [amp dev success stories]. It will only use signed exchanges in Chrome because currently only Chrome supports signed exchanges…

Forgive my lack of know-how, but does this theoretically mean I could download this _signed package_ to my computer along with the signature and use it later to prove that the information was provided by the source according to the signature?

Yes. You can see this among other planned use cases for the web packaging spec here https://wicg.github.io/webpackage/draft-yasskin-webpackage-u...

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#146

Post by cannedslime »

There is just something about AMP that reeks of soylent drinking hipsters. Everything from thinking requireing devs to use some abitrary CDN and tons of obfuscated scripts for the most mundane things (like forms?) to the emoji in the tag... Eh no thanks. I get that exchangeable signed website packages might be a good idea for various purposes. But no thanks I don't measure my life in seconds.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#147

Post by gnomewascool »

jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

I think that most people are worried about Google using a controversial[0], draft web "standard" (Signed HTTP Exchanges), that introduces a major change in how the web works, in mass production, without trying to first resolve the problems raised with the proposal.

[0] For instance, Mozilla considers the current specification to be harmful[1].

[1] https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#148

Post by IanCal »

cannedslime wrote: post #135
jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

My biggest quarrel with this is that its just another way for google to take control over the internet. Does any other search provider than google use AMP? Does any browser other than googles own support this? How busy are you? You can't wait 0.5 seconds for an HTTP request? And you think its worth feeding google with more precise data about your movements online than they already have? And as a business integrating…

> You can't wait 0.5 seconds for an HTTP request?

I don't have links to hand but everything I've seen shows real dropoffs in users as you increase the time. Once you're looking at low numbers of seconds you're looking at significant numbers of users simply abandoning the site. Half a second extra is not insignificant, and the user experience changes a lot between things that feel instant and things that have a noticeable wait.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#149

Post by dane-pgp »

AgentME wrote: post #45
p1mrx wrote: post #21

Seems like a reasonable idea. The content server says "here, you hold this for me", and the address bar only shows who originally signed it. One could imagine replacing the serving layer with something like BitTorrent or IPFS.

Yeah, I think this feature and the signed exchanges standard both sound great. It allows CDN-like servers to host content without having to be trusted to not modify the content. That sounds like an improvement over the current CDN situation. Also, sites that link to other sites can preload the linked site's content into the user's browser, without leaking the user's IP to the linked site, so if the user doesn't follo…

Signed Exchanges could also remove some of the concerns around JavaScript crypto, because there is a (potentially offline) key that signs the web app you're running, so you're not vulnerable to hacks of the hosting environment itself.

What's really needed is a way for the browser to lock a given web app/package to a specific version (and hash), so that even if the signing key becomes compromised, the app can't auto-update to a newer version containing malicious code.

Combining this with something like Certificate/Binary Transparency would allow browsers to check that they are not being uniquely targeted with a specially altered version, and you could set a policy saying "Only auto-update to a newer version of this web app if its hash has been published in a log for more than a month (and/or endorsed by signatures from N out of M other organisations I trust)".

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#150

Post by [deleted] »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #127
jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

I simply don't trust Google to not change the rules later. What will stop Google from down-grading 2nd class URLs (ie, not hosted with google) to page 2 results? It's effectively the same thing as having no AMP at all, yet they cleverly got everyone on board with this tactic. Edit: I just skimmed through this... this looks _WORSE_ than having Google show their domain. This is some of the sneakiest most deceitful garb…

[deleted]
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