It's a cool project technically, but I don't understand the use case? I mean surely everyone can just have real python/jupyterlab - if you run it in Docker it's easy to handle the dependencies etc. Am I missing something?
Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
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Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#62Wow, it seems to work really well. After giving it a small test drive, I'm impressed. Solid work from Mozilla, and a pretty informative article too! That said, between this, iodide and ObservableHQ, I guess I give up. The browser is the new OS. My question now is - how can we make browser environment to be more like Emacs (bear with me)? My main complaints are: - Browser ergonomy absolutely sucks, and there's nothing…
> If I'm to spend 8+ hours a day doing serious work in a web browser, the browser needs to be better. Agreed! Jupyter notebooks are great, but I miss my Vim keybindings when editing code in cells. (Plugins like Vimperator always collide with some native keybindings.)
I did spend several days in a row typing code 10+ hours a day in Observable notebook (I had some idea I needed to validate and demonstrate to other people in the company). While the tool itself was amazing, the coding aspect was not.
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#63Wow, it seems to work really well. After giving it a small test drive, I'm impressed. Solid work from Mozilla, and a pretty informative article too! That said, between this, iodide and ObservableHQ, I guess I give up. The browser is the new OS. My question now is - how can we make browser environment to be more like Emacs (bear with me)? My main complaints are: - Browser ergonomy absolutely sucks, and there's nothing…
> If I'm to spend 8+ hours a day doing serious work in a web browser, the browser needs to be better. Agreed! Jupyter notebooks are great, but I miss my Vim keybindings when editing code in cells. (Plugins like Vimperator always collide with some native keybindings.)
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I'm to spend 8+ hours a day doing serious work in a web browser, the browser needs to be better. Agreed! Jupyter notebooks are great, but I miss my Vim keybindings when editing code in cells. (Plugins like Vimperator always collide with some native keybindings.)
If you run EIN (Emacs Ipython Notebook module) in emacs with vim keybindings (via spacemacs or evil mode, or some other distribution/mode) you can get some pretty great results. Would definitely look into it if you're either already using emacs or willing to try it out.
Since some of the notebooks I work on are collaborative and versioned with git, this was painful for reading diffs (even more so with the ipynb format) so I dropped it to my regret.
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#65Wow, it seems to work really well. After giving it a small test drive, I'm impressed. Solid work from Mozilla, and a pretty informative article too! That said, between this, iodide and ObservableHQ, I guess I give up. The browser is the new OS. My question now is - how can we make browser environment to be more like Emacs (bear with me)? My main complaints are: - Browser ergonomy absolutely sucks, and there's nothing…
Fully valid points. And I see no reason why we should accept the urge to use the browser for many tasks which are way better accomplished with existing solutions. After all, aren't we increasing the complexity while limiting functionality and ease of use? Sure, if your core business is in the Cloud and browser market, this may look different, but I believe the terminal will still continue to serve the scientific comp…
> terminal will still continue to serve the scientific computing community well
I hope so, but note how data is on the web, the output is expected to be on the web (so others can consume it), collaboration is expected to be on the web, and now you can code things on the web... Everything is moving into the browser.
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
WebGL doesn't have compute shaders. There are (gross) hacks that "emulate" gpu compute on top of stock shaders but they're limited and can't possibly compete with CUDA.
What now? https://www.tensorflow.org/js/guide/platform_environment#web...
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
WebGL doesn't have compute shaders. There are (gross) hacks that "emulate" gpu compute on top of stock shaders but they're limited and can't possibly compete with CUDA.
What now? https://www.tensorflow.org/js/guide/platform_environment#web...
So no, this isn't a web thing and not usefull for web apps/web pages, except maybe for a very limited and small set of use cases.
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can do GPGPU stuff via WebGL, right?
WebGL doesn't have compute shaders. There are (gross) hacks that "emulate" gpu compute on top of stock shaders but they're limited and can't possibly compete with CUDA.
And here is a draft spec for WebGL2 Compute: https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-comp...
Only a matter of time until this will be available in chrome and firefox by default. Probably never in Safari though, since it doesn't even support WebGL 2.
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#69It's a cool project technically, but I don't understand the use case? I mean surely everyone can just have real python/jupyterlab - if you run it in Docker it's easy to handle the dependencies etc. Am I missing something?
For me, the most important aspect of Pyodide is that it allows the scientific Python stack to go everywhere the Web goes. And the Web goes everywhere.
That means I can share a link to a Pyodide notebook, and the recipient gets a fully interactive experience, no installation required. And that's really important for the generation that's getting their start in computing through classroom iPads, Chromebooks, etc. which do not easily allow for "real" Python.
Re: Pyodide: Bringing the scientific Python stack to the browser
#70So while I do some of my coding in the browser, the code executed is an EC2 far far away, close to my data, with excellent networking etc. There is very little that a Python stack directly in my browser would offer, to me (!) at least (your mileage may vary).