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US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

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Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#21

Post by will_brown »

cabaalis wrote: post #19
duxup wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"admits" seems to be a frequent weasel word these days. You identify the issues with someone's story that you don't like and then you make a story about how they 'admit' those things. God help anyone who actually 'admits' anything these days as to some people that must be instantly discrediting.

"Claim" is my favorite of these words. Main example: "Elected official claims nothing bad was done" It has a gentle enough negative connotation to allow you to massage the emotions of your reader, while still being a technically accurate statement. Only people with something to hide will "claim" or "deny" something. It's the same idea where you're talking about something and your audience can feel a "big old but" com…

Well in fairness these words have a basis in the legal system.

Think of an insurance claim and/or civil claim. In response to a civil complaint initiating a civil lawsuit, the defendant must answer the complaint by “admitting” or “denying” each allegation.

And “allege” is the entire basis of US criminal law...as in innocent until proven guilty. As in the defendant allegedly committed the crime until and unless convicted.

These are all legal terms of art.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#22

Post by techntoke »

equalunique wrote: post #13

Hacking computers shouldn't be a crime in the first place. Fraud, theft, etc. are the types of crimes many "hackers" could be charged with, but computer intrusion itself shouldn't be counted among them.

Trespassing is a crime, as well as breaking and entering.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#23

Post by Fjolsvith »

cjensen wrote: post #9
duxup wrote: post #2

I think it is pretty well understood that they weren't successful. At least to me as far as if he deserves protection as a journalist, I don't think it matters if he was successful. You can help someone try to commit a crime and even if they're not successful, that can be a crime. If a journalist is given information that is one thing, offering or even helping someone commit a crime and their role has changed dramati…

Yep. There are ethical rules for Journalism, which are enshrined in law in many places. One of the rules is that a Journalist may receive stolen information and publish it. But a Journalist may not themselves steal the information, or participate or aid in obtaining private information. Right now, it looks to me like Assange lied that he was going to help hack anything. I don't see how this is a crime under US law. I…

People get sent to jail all the time for conspiring to commit a crime yet never following through with it. I spent 10 years in federal prison and met lots of those people.

Do not verbally agree to any illegal act. Doing so is a crime, 1st amendment rights notwithstanding, and regardless of your intent of whether or not you will carry through with the act.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#24

Post by boomboomsubban »

duxup wrote: post #2

I think it is pretty well understood that they weren't successful. At least to me as far as if he deserves protection as a journalist, I don't think it matters if he was successful. You can help someone try to commit a crime and even if they're not successful, that can be a crime. If a journalist is given information that is one thing, offering or even helping someone commit a crime and their role has changed dramati…

>I also wonder what might have happened to that other user whose account they tried to access had hey been successful. What would have come of that person's life / career had they used that as cover for Manning?

From the affidavit, the password they tried to crack was for the Windows user "ftp," not attributable to any person.

I don't understand how people can claim Assange is somehow at fault for attempting to save Manning from the terrible treatment she is still receiving for her deed.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#25

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

will_brown wrote: post #21
cabaalis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Claim" is my favorite of these words. Main example: "Elected official claims nothing bad was done" It has a gentle enough negative connotation to allow you to massage the emotions of your reader, while still being a technically accurate statement. Only people with something to hide will "claim" or "deny" something. It's the same idea where you're talking about something and your audience can feel a "big old but" com…

Well in fairness these words have a basis in the legal system. Think of an insurance claim and/or civil claim. In response to a civil complaint initiating a civil lawsuit, the defendant must answer the complaint by “admitting” or “denying” each allegation. And “allege” is the entire basis of US criminal law...as in innocent until proven guilty. As in the defendant allegedly committed the crime until and unless convic…

> These are all legal terms of art.

More like the art of legalese, TBH.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#26

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

Fjolsvith wrote: post #23
cjensen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. There are ethical rules for Journalism, which are enshrined in law in many places. One of the rules is that a Journalist may receive stolen information and publish it. But a Journalist may not themselves steal the information, or participate or aid in obtaining private information. Right now, it looks to me like Assange lied that he was going to help hack anything. I don't see how this is a crime under US law. I…

People get sent to jail all the time for conspiring to commit a crime yet never following through with it. I spent 10 years in federal prison and met lots of those people. Do not verbally agree to any illegal act. Doing so is a crime, 1st amendment rights notwithstanding, and regardless of your intent of whether or not you will carry through with the act.

Would you be willing to share a bit of what happened, so that others know what not to do / why not to do it?

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#28

Post by Spooky23 »

cabaalis wrote: post #19
duxup wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"admits" seems to be a frequent weasel word these days. You identify the issues with someone's story that you don't like and then you make a story about how they 'admit' those things. God help anyone who actually 'admits' anything these days as to some people that must be instantly discrediting.

"Claim" is my favorite of these words. Main example: "Elected official claims nothing bad was done" It has a gentle enough negative connotation to allow you to massage the emotions of your reader, while still being a technically accurate statement. Only people with something to hide will "claim" or "deny" something. It's the same idea where you're talking about something and your audience can feel a "big old but" com…

You can chain these things together and add middle names to make it even scarier.

Spelling out male middle names can make anyone sound like a serial killer.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#29

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

equalunique wrote: post #13

Hacking computers shouldn't be a crime in the first place. Fraud, theft, etc. are the types of crimes many "hackers" could be charged with, but computer intrusion itself shouldn't be counted among them.

I translated this for you:

   Breaking into houses shouldn't be a crime in the first place.
   Stealing things, breaking stuff, or photographing ID's are 
   crimes that people can be charged with, but I don't think 
   that breaking into houses should be counted.
See where this falls apart? I can easily get into your home without damaging anything by picking the lock, and if someone was in my house, I'd want them out as fast as possible, and the police saying I have no right to do anything to them until they do something first is a bad idea- if they shoot me, how to I fire back? If they break my valuables, how do I react?

Similarly, while hacking things doesn't directly endanger people, doing anything with the information does, and this includes reconnaissance for a later hit.

Re: US Government Admits It Doesn’t Know If Assange Cracked Password for Manning

#30

Post by jessaustin »

sigzero wrote: post #17

The title means to me, that they know he "tried" but don't know if he was "successful".

Why would we believe them either way? They've overplayed their hands, and now they're panicking. Even if Assange actually cracked the password, it would only have given Manning access to material to which she already had access. The reason she wanted to use a different login was because she didn't want to be caught. With good reason, because once they caught her they tortured her for years. The primary reason for the torture was to force her to falsely implicate Assange in actual crimes, which she steadfastly refused to do. Now they've charged Assange anyway.

Protecting an anonymous source from the authorities is a basic journalistic duty. Journalists these days have spent so much time protecting authoritarian sources from the public they've forgotten how it's supposed to work.

For these reasons, Assange will not be extradited from UK. Those who now cheer Trump's attack on journalism will soon complain that it's not a more effective attack.

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