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Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

nytimes.com

51–60 of 91 posts

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#51
post #41
post #7

This is messy. On one hand, how are insurers supposed to properly cost and be able to provide payouts for a "cyberattack", which might be anything from "our company website was DDoSed for 30 minutes and we lost 50 customers" to "our production lines were shut down and our company ground to a halt for two weeks"? On the other hand, if insurers know they can invoke a cyberwarfare clause and deny a claim, even if the at…

Auto insurers have no problem covering claims ranging from a chip in a windshield to eight car pileups with multiple fatal and life-altering injuries. The range of possible losses doesn't really make it harder for insurers. The fuzzy definition of an act of cyber war is what makes it hard for policyholders though.

Nah, what makes it hard for insurers isn't that we don't know what an "act of cyber war" is. That just comes up when they try to get _out_ of it, and the same thing comes up with non-cyber "acts of war" -- it might make it hard on customers who are trying to file claims, but it's not hard on the companies.

But it _is_ hard on insurerers to do under-writing on cyber attacks -- UNRELATED to the "war" exemption, even non-war attacks. Because it's _new_, so they don't have all the historical data and methods for estimating risk. As others are saying, this is the business insurance companies are in, estimating statistical risk and figuring out the right premiums to charge to cover it. But the cyber stuff is new, which _does_ make it hard.

As original article says:

> Cyberattacks have created a unique challenge for insurers. Traditional practices, like not covering multiple buildings in the same neighborhood to avoid the risk of, say, a big fire don’t apply. Malware moves fast and unpredictably, leaving an expensive trail of collateral damage.

But nobody said they had to cover cyber stuff. They can put stuff in their policies saying they don't cover it at all, if they don't know how to underwrite it. What they can't do is put stuff in their policies saying they cover it, take your premiums on that basis, but then try to weasel out of it.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#52
post #16
post #7

This is messy. On one hand, how are insurers supposed to properly cost and be able to provide payouts for a "cyberattack", which might be anything from "our company website was DDoSed for 30 minutes and we lost 50 customers" to "our production lines were shut down and our company ground to a halt for two weeks"? On the other hand, if insurers know they can invoke a cyberwarfare clause and deny a claim, even if the at…

> how are insurers supposed to properly cost and be able to provide payouts This is what insurance companies do..

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-insurab...

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Good for a party trick but in general I have yet to find a good real use case for it. It's particularly hilarious when you and several buddies are watching the meter maid try to put a ticket on it. It's probably occasionally useful for adjusting a car in the driveway but yeah, it's 99% party trick. It could theoretically be useful for attaching a trailer but most Tesla owners aren't doing that and the collision dete…

Yes, humiliating other people is hilarious...

I assure you it wasn't nearly as big of an obstacle to the guy writing the ticket as you think it would be. Humans are very good at improvising when a new situation is thrown their way.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#54
post #32

its pretty spectacular what major insurance does not cover in the digital context. For example, I work as an automotive engine mechanic for a small chain of midwestern shops. Recently we had a Tesla owner drive in for servicing a recalled suspension control arm. We were approved to do the work by Tesla and had the parts shipped directly from California. once the work was completed, we informed the customer in the wai…

I'm not sure to understand, is there a thing to have your car drives itself home on the press of a button, from the internet?

It has been useful for in the past to get out of a parking spot that in my absence has become too small to open the doors adequately.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, humiliating other people is hilarious...

I assure you it wasn't nearly as big of an obstacle to the guy writing the ticket as you think it would be. Humans are very good at improvising when a new situation is thrown their way.

I assure you, bothering someone like this when they are trying to get through their day is not hilarious to that person. Not only did your friend act like an ass and part illegally or over the time limit, but they then risked possibly running over a person's foot or something while fucking around.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#56
post #32

its pretty spectacular what major insurance does not cover in the digital context. For example, I work as an automotive engine mechanic for a small chain of midwestern shops. Recently we had a Tesla owner drive in for servicing a recalled suspension control arm. We were approved to do the work by Tesla and had the parts shipped directly from California. once the work was completed, we informed the customer in the wai…

This is why the first thing Tesla service does is disable mobile access while the car's in the shop.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It lets you go forward and back. Only works if you are within Bluetooth range and keep your finger on the button in the app. If you let go the car stops. It will actually make minor turns to avoid hitting stuff. Though apparently not going off cliffs. Good for a party trick but in general I have yet to find a good real use case for it. Using it without being able to see your car is pure idiocy.

>Good for a party trick but in general I have yet to find a good real use case for it. It's particularly hilarious when you and several buddies are watching the meter maid try to put a ticket on it. It's probably occasionally useful for adjusting a car in the driveway but yeah, it's 99% party trick. It could theoretically be useful for attaching a trailer but most Tesla owners aren't doing that and the collision dete…

[deleted]

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#58

It might actually be a good thing in the long term as insurance companies may require 3rd party audits and that you comply with basic security practices.

Insurance companies already do this but that's not the point at all. You can be the victim of a cyberattack even if you do everything right and the insurance company will refuse to pay out of it's tied to (perhaps with little evidence) to a state-funded attack.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#59

Most insurers require customers to limit their risk in all kinds of ways. I’m curious if there are cyber mitigation’s that are out there, such as mandatory two factor authentication, requiring up to date software and OSes or other measures. It seems like any insurance company would Be highly Interested in forcing these best practices.

This particular attack wouldn't have been mitigated by any of that. This is why you also have insurance in addition to doing everything you can to prevent an attack.

Re: Big Companies Thought Insurance Covered a Cyberattack

#60
post #36
post #32

its pretty spectacular what major insurance does not cover in the digital context. For example, I work as an automotive engine mechanic for a small chain of midwestern shops. Recently we had a Tesla owner drive in for servicing a recalled suspension control arm. We were approved to do the work by Tesla and had the parts shipped directly from California. once the work was completed, we informed the customer in the wai…

auto-pilot requires the driver to be in the vehicle, i'm guessing this was the summon feature activated from their app? what a complete waste

If this is what happened, it's not that stupid on the part of the customer. Or perhaps better phrased, it's within the realm of what I would expect some users to do given this feature.

Tesla should have accounted for this.

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