Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#141

Post by MagicPropmaker » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:10 PM UTC

neffy wrote: post #82

Mindless2112 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tax withholding is the only way that many Americans manage to save speaks more to a lack of self-control than anything else. If Uncle Sam can save a lump-sum for you by deducting from your paycheck, you could have done the same (in fact, better) with a bit of resolve and a bank account.

78% of American workers live pay cheque to pay cheque. I would suggest that of the two possible hypotheses, the one where the system itself doesn't let them do anything else, might be the one more worth examining than the one that betrays a complete lack of empathy with your fellow citizens.

> 78% of American workers live pay cheque to pay cheque

This is not true. 78% of _American_ workers live paycheck to paycheck.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#142

Post by scarejunba » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

mises wrote: post #83

BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that all Americans pay the same federal income tax rates is just basic fairness. I've never seen anyone who doesn't personally benefit from the SALT deduction argue for it.

Exactly. If not, the states then get to keep a large amount of money while the feds then do a rougly equal split of tax revenue to states. It's a cheaters' way to basically rob other states to fund your own agenda, and I hate it.

While I think you're right in principle (it makes more sense conceptually to deduct fed tax from the state tax) I think the practice is that most of the high state tax states pay in far more to the government than they receive and the other ones are usually moochers.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#143

Post by stevenwoo » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

bryan11 wrote: post #102

As employers switch to High Deductible Health Plans where insurance doesn't kick in until one has spent a deductible of several thousand dollars, many people are delaying health care in general. A doctor's visit that once cost a co-pay of $30 is now frequently a cash price from $130 to $400, plus more for lab work. With higher costs and much of them unknown in advance, many skip getting things checked until it seems…

The co-pay was $10 for me in 1989. I had outpatient arthroscopic knee surgery in 1993 and it cost me nothing including X-Rays/MRI/CAT scan (the ortho was having trouble diagnosing it). All the pricing stories I hear today scare the heck out of me.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#144

Post by usaar333 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

epncs wrote: post #93

anbop wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that a bank teller has their own apartment? Your own apartment isn’t some kind of birthright. I had roommates until I was 27.

Having a full time job and not being able to afford to have your own place is simply miserable.

I've definitely been there and I think it only would have sucked had I believed my income would never rise.

Which to the greater point - what should the lifestyle expectation be on entry level jobs?

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#145

Post by harimau777 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:17 PM UTC

anbop wrote: post #85

shams93 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there was a great breakdown of this when the representative from Irvine, California grilled CEO Jaimie Dimon, a bank teller who lives in Irvine makes $15 an hour, basically such a person if they have their own apartment will be forced to choose between having food and having a phone. We have kept salaries frozen for so many decades that we have impoverished the majority of working people to a ridiculous level. A…

Why would you expect that a bank teller has their own apartment? Your own apartment isn’t some kind of birthright. I had roommates until I was 27.

I disagree. Throughout most of human history families have been able to own their own home. If someone was unable to own their own home they were free to establish a homestead on some unclaimed land. I conclude that the ability to own your own home is part of the social contract.

I realize that in many cases the land was technically owned by the gentry but I am talking about the day to day reality.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#146

Post by anbop » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:18 PM UTC

epncs wrote: post #93

anbop wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect that a bank teller has their own apartment? Your own apartment isn’t some kind of birthright. I had roommates until I was 27.

Having a full time job and not being able to afford to have your own place is simply miserable.

That’s an absurd level of luxury that people have become accommodated to. To the nearest percentage point, 0% of people in human history have grown up with the expectation of an entire dwelling as their personal domain. It’s wasteful and absurd. Resources like showers which are used 15 minutes a day should not sit idly all day waiting for a single person.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#147

Post by Patrick_Devine » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #3

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #2

This is insane given that the executive branch has been jiggering around with the withholding amounts for the entire year. Yes, you probably paid slightly less in tax during the year, but unless you were paying attention to your federal withholding, you're probably in for a shock with your federal return.

The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage.

Definitely agree. Like others have commented here, you should be trying to minimize your return as much as possible.

The point of the article was that people are waiting for their large refunds and are deferring health care until they get those refunds. My point is that many of those people won't actually be getting a return and won't be able to afford the health care that they need.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#148

Post by sexyflanders » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:21 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #131

peteradio wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid 400 dollars to have a doctor tell me to neti pot my nose after having sinus infection for 3 months. Might not be rational but fuck everything about this system. Who is pocketing all this goddamn money?

Malpractice lawyers and insurance, administrative juggling of data and insurance claims, medical equipment manufactures and certification, doctors (by proxy medical schools and loan providers), practices recovering unpaid bills, and real estate owners.

Not to mention pharmaceutical companies charging astronomical prices for prescription meds.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#149

Post by darkpuma » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

colejohnson66 wrote: post #127

romski wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone lend money without interest?

Should probably add: why would anyone lend money without interest to someone they don’t know ?

Right, lending money without interest is pretty common within families and trusted friendships. But obviously the amount of credit available loan free from friends or family is going to be significantly less than what a financial institution would give you.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#150

Post by samirillian » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #135

peteradio wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid 400 dollars to have a doctor tell me to neti pot my nose after having sinus infection for 3 months. Might not be rational but fuck everything about this system. Who is pocketing all this goddamn money?

Through no fault of the author, this comment thread explains the trick. The article talks about US health care access but the discussion quickly goes off into the weeds of the US health insurance market. As soon as we start talking about premiums we adopt business language and metrics and abandon medical language and metrics. All that money is pocketed by businesses run for profit. It's pocketed because it can be. It…

You make it sound like the business isn't run by humans. Do you consider price gouging sick people and ethical business to get into? If not, please make that a bit more clear in your comment.