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Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#61

Post by krapp »

vuln wrote: post #58
koolba wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it the only option? It’s not but it’s a lot easier for many people if they don’t realize they have the money. > If withholding is less, what’s stopping people from saving the reduction? Reality. It’s no different then walking around town with a couples $20 bills vs walking around with your pockets empty. Sure you could just not spend any of it but it’s a hell of a lot easier if you don’t even have the option…

>Not having cash on hand and being forced to make due with less is surprisingly effective. This is exactly what the Democrats want and push with their agenda. They would rather raise taxes and make every one poor in order to feed into a larger government. Government programs that sound good, but don't actually work out on paper. By keeping the masses poor it's easier to sell them on "social programs" that would assis…

Social programs do help the poor. If not for food stamps and free school lunches, many of the poor would simply be left to starve to death. Indigent healthcare, federal student loans, welfare, housing assistance, all of it helps the poor, objectively.

And I would be thrilled to pay more taxes if it meant I could go back to college or have health insurance without risking a lifetime of debt either way.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#62

Post by awinder »

jfk13 wrote: post #51
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don't actually have that money. Suppose that the state and the federal government each had a 55% tax rate. Then you would make $1 and owe $1.10. You would owe more in taxes than you make, so you would quit your job. Of course, there is a simple way for the states to fix this -- move the taxes to the business side. Instead of having state income tax, have payroll tax paid by the employer. Then the employer…

If both the state and federal governments each had a 55% tax rate, you'd be justified in questioning the rates and voting for a different government! Just as I expect people would complain if there was just a single tax authority, but it set a rate of 110%. Assume for now that we accept the federal government is entitled to raise money for its programs by taxing people's incomes (yes, some people might disagree, but…

At the end of the day I think it matters because high tax states have already been subsidizing red states and one of the pressure release valves was that they weren’t taxed twice on the same income. I.e:

https://www.apnews.com/2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c

So you remove this pressure valve and skew those numbers to an even wider margin and you have, I would say justifiable, consternation about what we are doing here when the people who have been paying the bills are asked to pay more.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#63

Post by xiphias2 »

ianai wrote: post #55
fma wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep... Even car sales increase because people have money for the down-payment. A large population of Americans do not have much savings. Could be bad money management, low paying jobs, bad luck (health issues) etc.

Phht, bad money management. When loan sharks are peddling 450% payday loans people are being taken advantage of by corporations. The government needs to practice better money management, not us private citizens. Close tax loopholes.

Actually both. It was crazy when I read from a person that he preferred paying his rent over eating, but it actually makes sense: if you get to the street, and not able to clean yourself, the chances of getting a job goes down dramatically.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#64

Post by [deleted] »

ianai wrote: post #55
fma wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep... Even car sales increase because people have money for the down-payment. A large population of Americans do not have much savings. Could be bad money management, low paying jobs, bad luck (health issues) etc.

Phht, bad money management. When loan sharks are peddling 450% payday loans people are being taken advantage of by corporations. The government needs to practice better money management, not us private citizens. Close tax loopholes.

[deleted]

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#65

Post by war1025 »

mises wrote: post #26
jedberg wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like that system, but unfortunately most of our fellow citizens would end up broke come tax time. Most people simply say "I can spend until my bank account is empty". That's why most people choose impound accounts when they get a mortgage. Because they literally can not budget money for the bi-annual property tax bill, so they have the bank take the money every month. It's also why teachers are offered a 10 c…

I get this, and also that it's to help prevent the sticker shock of taxes that can lead to serious backlash. With that said, America is not supposed to be a place where the Nanny State must step in to manage people's lives for them simply because they can't do it themselves. I and my fellow citizens should not have to lose money simply because others choose to waste money. I like the comment lotsofpulp made below: "T…

The government doesn't hold anyone's money hostage. You are free to adjust your W-4 withholdings any time you want. They even have an online calculator to estimate your tax burden and set your withholding properly.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#66

Post by Mindless2112 »

kartan wrote: post #32

> Out-of-pocket medical spending jumps once the money hits people’s bank accounts. It is a bad thing that tax withholding is one of the few ways Americans can have savings. When you live check to check this can be your only option.

That tax withholding is the only way that many Americans manage to save speaks more to a lack of self-control than anything else.

If Uncle Sam can save a lump-sum for you by deducting from your paycheck, you could have done the same (in fact, better) with a bit of resolve and a bank account.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#67

Post by jlebar »

Mindless2112 wrote: post #66
kartan wrote: post #32

> Out-of-pocket medical spending jumps once the money hits people’s bank accounts. It is a bad thing that tax withholding is one of the few ways Americans can have savings. When you live check to check this can be your only option.

That tax withholding is the only way that many Americans manage to save speaks more to a lack of self-control than anything else. If Uncle Sam can save a lump-sum for you by deducting from your paycheck, you could have done the same (in fact, better) with a bit of resolve and a bank account.

Not necessarily -- perhaps you're in debt day-to-day. This is the reality for many Americans.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#68

Post by pnutjam »

jfk13 wrote: post #51
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you don't actually have that money. Suppose that the state and the federal government each had a 55% tax rate. Then you would make $1 and owe $1.10. You would owe more in taxes than you make, so you would quit your job. Of course, there is a simple way for the states to fix this -- move the taxes to the business side. Instead of having state income tax, have payroll tax paid by the employer. Then the employer…

If both the state and federal governments each had a 55% tax rate, you'd be justified in questioning the rates and voting for a different government! Just as I expect people would complain if there was just a single tax authority, but it set a rate of 110%. Assume for now that we accept the federal government is entitled to raise money for its programs by taxing people's incomes (yes, some people might disagree, but…

States rights.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#69

Post by pnutjam »

azeotropic wrote: post #31
ip26 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wouldn't we all be more free, really , if we just gave everyone enough rope to hang themselves & then locked up the left-hand side of the bell curve in debtor's prison?

Does the left hand side of the bell curve actually owe any federal income tax?

FICA is always paid, and hits lower wages harder. You know that money just goes to the general fund.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#70

Post by kartan »

Mindless2112 wrote: post #66
kartan wrote: post #32

> Out-of-pocket medical spending jumps once the money hits people’s bank accounts. It is a bad thing that tax withholding is one of the few ways Americans can have savings. When you live check to check this can be your only option.

That tax withholding is the only way that many Americans manage to save speaks more to a lack of self-control than anything else. If Uncle Sam can save a lump-sum for you by deducting from your paycheck, you could have done the same (in fact, better) with a bit of resolve and a bank account.

> That tax withholding is the only way that many Americans manage to save speaks more to a lack of self-control than anything else.

I understand that it may seem so. But, when there is millions of Americans in that situation then it is a systemic problem not a personal one.

There is a lot of on-line resources about this topic. e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=the+cost+of+being+poor

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