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Today's Coding Interview Game

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Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#71

Post by ericflo »

RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #69
ericflo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then there's that whole other class of people who are great but can't deal with the pressure and awkwardness of coding on a whiteboard in an interview. No interview process can be perfect, so unfortunately the trick is in correcting hiring mistakes early.

> people who are great but can't deal with the pressure > and awkwardness of coding on a whiteboard in an interview. We try really, really hard to allow for that. We try to get people talking first, and make moving to the whiteboard or paper or whatever part of the discussion, rather than propping them up and saying "Go!". Additionally, in our line of work sometimes you have to program in a team under extreme time pr…

Fair enough, I do see where you're coming from. Definitely agree on the "testing for what you actually want" point.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#72

Post by varjag »

skybrian wrote: post #15

I wonder how he knows what they're downgrading him for? Most interview processes don't give the candidate any feedback - just "hire" or "no hire". From the other side, I certainly don't expect perfect code on a whiteboard, especially if they're typical mistakes that even experienced coders sometimes make.

> I wonder how he knows what they're downgrading him for?

She. And yes, probably she knows. One usually has the feeling which part of the interview they fail.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#73

Post by varjag »

Revisor wrote: post #67
AndrewMoffat wrote: post #10

This blog post strikes home. Anyone who has worked with me or seen my work has identified me as a top-tier developer, and yet I rarely nail any interviews because I never "sound" how the hiring manager thinks a good candidate should sound. I've boiled it down to my salesmanship, or lack thereof. I don't like talking myself up, and therefore I have difficulty conveying myself confidently. And, as it goes with vicious…

I want to deliberately look for people like you. How do I tell it's you? The skilled but modest/unsociable/shy/... programmer.

Look at their hobby projects. And/or contributions to the public projects. Good programmers nearly inevitably leave some visible trace.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#74

Post by sokoloff »

aristus wrote: post #26

I worry a lot about this. I don't think it's distrust so much as thoughtlessness. From what I can tell, Google (and other companies) started using these kinds of questions as a way to cheaply filter sudden floods of applicants, not because this is the way to find the greatest geniuses of our time. Policies implemented under the gun have two unfortunate properties: they are wasteful and hard to change after the fact.…

Thoughtful comment, but there's a practical problem with your last point: how can YOU (as a hiring manager at this "some smarter company") effectively filter through the enormous set of screened-out candidates that Google rejected and find those productive, creative misfits that you want to interview/hire out of the teeming throng of vocational misfits?

Of the people actively applying for jobs at any given point in time, the "truly excellent" are under-represented as compared to the total population of programmers.

I'm not a Joel fan boy, but I think http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/01/27.html states this problem more clearly than I can in a few paragraphs on HN.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#75

Post by ZoFreX »

aplusbi wrote: post #25

I've interviewed a lot of programmers and I think there are many misconceptions about what an interviewer is looking for or expecting. I don't expect you to be able to code quicksort from memory. I do expect you to be able to code quicksort given the spec for it. Just because I point out an error doesn't mean I'm counting it against you. I'm pointing it out to see how you handle it. I do expect you to ask questions.…

This reminds me of my Cambridge University interview. I thought I'd done terribly because I couldn't provide the answer to most of the questions they asked, but I did explain how I would find that answer if they gave me 10 minutes and some paper. I passed the interview, and many of my peers that were able to recite the formulae by rote when prompted (and thus felt they had done well) did not.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#76

Post by sokoloff »

MetallicCloud wrote: post #13
AndrewMoffat wrote: post #10

This blog post strikes home. Anyone who has worked with me or seen my work has identified me as a top-tier developer, and yet I rarely nail any interviews because I never "sound" how the hiring manager thinks a good candidate should sound. I've boiled it down to my salesmanship, or lack thereof. I don't like talking myself up, and therefore I have difficulty conveying myself confidently. And, as it goes with vicious…

Yep, I'm right there with you. I know I'm not selling myself correctly, but the thought of putting anything on my resume that even remotely embellishes the truth a little makes me want to hurl. Also, combine that with the fact that I hate my current job so much that I am afraid that my next just might suck as much, so I am being /very/ picky. I've turned down a couple of job offers that in hindsight I probably should…

I would encourage people like yourself to put enough information your HN profile that you can be reached for networking purposes by other HN readers. Many of us may be in a position to offer interviews for non-suck jobs or pointers towards same, that we aren't going to post in open comments to the entire HN community, but would send targetted to the email in your HN profile.

If you are shy or anti-marketing, you may need to work just a little harder in mediums you are comfortable with to network. (This isn't directed at you specifically, MC.)

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#77

Post by buro9 »

sokoloff wrote: post #76
MetallicCloud wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I'm right there with you. I know I'm not selling myself correctly, but the thought of putting anything on my resume that even remotely embellishes the truth a little makes me want to hurl. Also, combine that with the fact that I hate my current job so much that I am afraid that my next just might suck as much, so I am being /very/ picky. I've turned down a couple of job offers that in hindsight I probably should…

I would encourage people like yourself to put enough information your HN profile that you can be reached for networking purposes by other HN readers. Many of us may be in a position to offer interviews for non-suck jobs or pointers towards same, that we aren't going to post in open comments to the entire HN community, but would send targetted to the email in your HN profile. If you are shy or anti-marketing, you may…

Seconded. I'm hiring and whenever I see HN posts I like I check profiles immediately for location information and contact details, or at least info on where I might find out more about someone.

HN is networking. Make yourself discoverable.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#78

Post by eftpotrm »

angelbob wrote: post #51
zackattack wrote: post #16

Do you think that being able to implement a linked list is a fundamental programming skill? Because if an advanced programmer is lost her ability to relate with novices ("my boss can't even implement a fucking linked list") I'd say that'd be a bad thing. In my humble estimation, experts tend to be bad teachers because they have lost touch with the frames of novices. The best teachers are ones who have most recently m…

Depends on the position. I have worked, recently, on codebases where that kind of thing was absolutely a core skill and we asked people to write linked list code in the interview process. We were also doing manually-managed core OS and display manager code for a mobile operating system. In my current job writing server-side Java and Ruby on Rails code, I wouldn't dream of asking that question. It would be pointless.

Amen. I've worked perfectly happily and successfully in software for the last 10 years, writing what most of the software industry is writing - database apps.

I've never, ever, needed to write a linked list, a sorting algorithm, access memory directly and pass around pointers or any of the sample problems that are being cited here. I know the theory, I've done them in academia many years ago but I've got more important and useful things to remember on a day-to-day basis. These are firmly under the category of 'look them up if I ever need them again' and I'd be perfectly happy with a hypothetical candidate (I've not interviewed anyone in years) who said they knew the theory and would look up the exact details. I do that all the time with the more esoteric features.

At my last place, we did have a coding test as part of the interview. We checked all sorts of little things but could usually mark the entire test with some accuracy on the first question.

1. Please write a valid SQL inner join statement.

Seriously. For a position specifying SQL, to maintain an SQL backed custom business application, a majority of applicants couldn't write an inner join.

I suppose I'm saying - do whiteboard / paper coding tests, but do the _right_ ones for your projects. Don't give them a test on something that's clever but unnecessary for what you do, check they know the basics and are up to speed with independent learning and they should be fine.

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#79

Post by mmt »

msie wrote: post #30

It's hilarious that some commenters here refer to the author as a guy.

Your amusement seems to me to be based on a false assumption.

"He" could be gender-neutral, and perhaps they're encouraging equality by ignoring the sex of the referent.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795518

Re: Today's Coding Interview Game

#80

Post by edw519 »

on a white board, no syntax errors, compilable

Huh? You're worrying about whether or not what you write on a white board will compile? How do you know? Press a magic button to OCR what you've written, download it into some computer somewhere, and compile it? Sounds like you're interviewing at firms with technology I didn't know existed.

Your interviewers have you code on a white board so that they can evaluate you, not your code. They want to see how you handle a problem, how you approach your work, how you think on your feet, how you deal with interaction, and how your intelligence and experience applies to their business. Anyone who worries about whether white board code actually compiles is missing the point. If they're more interested in perfect syntax than embracing you and your potential contribution, then you don't want to work for them anyway.

I think you're making this too hard on yourself. Memorize nothing. Just be yourself. Programming is like riding a bike; once it's part of your DNA, you don't have to worry about it. Just relax, trust your inner programmer, and let this become a self-solving problem; some jerks may reject you, but the right fit will come when someone sees who you really are.

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