Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#21

Post by tax_breaks_ » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #6

jaggederest wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that is literally the solution, witness superannuation plans and social security systems around the world.

Not a big fan of those either, but at least give access to invest the funds in a savings account or the market. I’d rather we teach some basic finance and civic responsibility in school.

Gee, you mean "civic responsibility" like not rewarding tax avoidance and tax cheats like the orange buffoon and his ilk?

Yeah, we're all in favor.

These tax changes have raped the lower and middle classes. Trying to be disingenuous about "civic responsibility" and "basic finance" is pretty shitty.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#22

Post by jfk13 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

wsdfsayy wrote: post #15

mises wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious as to the reason why. Do you live in a state with high state income tax?

Anyone living in a state with high income and/or property taxes will likely pay more this year given the $10k cap on deductions for state and local taxes which was previously unlimited before the 2018 tax year...

And why not? I don't see any fundamental reason why your local taxes should be deductible for federal tax purposes.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#23

Post by chrisabrams » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

mises wrote: post #14

Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could…

This is what I do but I work for myself. Withholding is easier as most people would prefer to watch Tom Brady throw touchdowns vs manage their money.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#24

Post by jfk13 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #3

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #2

This is insane given that the executive branch has been jiggering around with the withholding amounts for the entire year. Yes, you probably paid slightly less in tax during the year, but unless you were paying attention to your federal withholding, you're probably in for a shock with your federal return.

The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage.

It is, actually. Unless you have figured out some previously-unknown way to successfully educate the entire population to be financially responsible?

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#25

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

mises wrote: post #14

Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could…

I felt this way until I asked a tax accountant who said that the majority of taxpayers are just not capable of this discipline, planning, or in some cases math.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#26

Post by mises » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #16

mises wrote: post #14

Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could…

I would like that system, but unfortunately most of our fellow citizens would end up broke come tax time. Most people simply say "I can spend until my bank account is empty". That's why most people choose impound accounts when they get a mortgage. Because they literally can not budget money for the bi-annual property tax bill, so they have the bank take the money every month. It's also why teachers are offered a 10 c…

I get this, and also that it's to help prevent the sticker shock of taxes that can lead to serious backlash. With that said, America is not supposed to be a place where the Nanny State must step in to manage people's lives for them simply because they can't do it themselves. I and my fellow citizens should not have to lose money simply because others choose to waste money.

I like the comment lotsofpulp made below: "The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage."

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#27

Post by ip26 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

mises wrote: post #14

Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could…

I feel similarly about incomes; employers ought to write a single check all at once. You get paid on Jan 1st and that's it. Perhaps as a stretch goal we can aim for decennial paychecks.

In seriousness, a steady flow instead of a lump sum has benefits for both sides of the transaction.

For example, I shudder to imagine what shopping sprees politicians might engage in, were they bequeathed with the nation's entire yearly budget in one day!

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#28

Post by ben0x539 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #16

mises wrote: post #14

Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could…

I would like that system, but unfortunately most of our fellow citizens would end up broke come tax time. Most people simply say "I can spend until my bank account is empty". That's why most people choose impound accounts when they get a mortgage. Because they literally can not budget money for the bi-annual property tax bill, so they have the bank take the money every month. It's also why teachers are offered a 10 c…

> Most people simply say "I can spend until my bank account is empty".

I don't think this comes down to just individual discipline/budgeting either. If you rejiggled things to that people who live paycheck to paycheck suddenly have non-zero amounts of money in their accounts for most of the year, I bet you'd suddenly see cost-of-living prices/rent adjust upwards so that they're living paycheck to paycheck again, except then they're fucked when taxes are due. Landlords etc aren't gonna leave money on the table.

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#29

Post by ip26 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #17

lotsofpulp wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage.

> The solution to people’s inability to save is not for the government to hold their money hostage. Meanwhile, in the real world where the left-hand side of the Bell curve exists, and where many people have poor impulse control, that actually is the solution to some people's inability to save. Heck, as a student I worked in a union shop where this was actually baked into the collective agreement because of past exper…

But wouldn't we all be more free, really, if we just gave everyone enough rope to hang themselves & then locked up the left-hand side of the bell curve in debtor's prison?

Re: Americans Are Delaying Health Care Until Tax Refunds Arrive

#30

Post by PopeDotNinja » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

mises wrote: post #14

Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer and to psychologically soften the blow of the ridiculous tax rates we pay. It's especially bad with mandatory withholding by the employer. It shouldn't happen. Taxpayers ought to figure out how much they owe and write the check for it at once. This is especially true since consumers can't invest that income or get interest on it: I could…

> Withholding is an awful idea designed to favor the government over the taxpayer

I like taxes being withheld from my paycheck. Dealing with taxes can be incredibly confusing, and it's super easy to screw up. If I could choose between taxes being withheld and making payments on my own, I'd seriously consider having the money withheld.