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YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

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Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#271
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Trending page makes me feel really old, and pretty "get off my lawn" w/r/t what's popular, or being promoted, right now. A lot of the channels I've followed have gone fallow. No new content. That said, I think the arguments around this topic are pretty disingenuous. 1) There's nasty content being uploaded to Youtube -- YouTube isn't making the nasty content. 2) YouTube promotes some content, people are pissed - i…

> b) creators who want to make money. The only platform I've seen so far for this one to compete with YT outside of porn is Patreon, and the videos that get monetized there without also being posted and/or monetized on YT tend to be... less than wholesome in a lot of cases.

Patreon only really works for people with an audience so enchanted with the creator that they would follow them anywhere.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so why hasn't it entranced the majority of non-liberal-arts majors? Perhaps a possible explanation is that such speech is already disallowed on many popular networks - Reddit, Twitter or Facebook, for instance. This leads to a secondary effect in which people who have never actually seen antisemitic arguments believe (rightly) that it's something they wouldn't have wanted to see anyway, so they are fine getting rid…

> Perhaps a possible explanation is that such speech is already disallowed on many popular networks - Reddit, Twitter or Facebook, for instance. Antisemitism isn't new, it predates Reddit and Facebook and Twitter and we've already been through periods of history where antisemitism had widespread exposure in the public discourse yet democracy still defeated it. Antisemitism (and discrimination in general) is a bad ide…

>we've already been through periods of history where antisemitism had widespread exposure in the public discourse yet democracy still defeated it.

Sartre was writing right after France was liberated from the Nazis, so from his own position in history he'd laugh if he were to hear you say that. Arguably anti-semitism has not enjoyed a popular resurgence since the downfall of the Nazis and I'd hazard a guess that it's because its effects were so evident, as was its proliferation among ordinary "thinking" people in the Nazis's rise to power. Perhaps with new generations who don't have memory of the effects of anti-semitism, who are only acquainted through it by the school system which they may be (rightly) distrustful of, there is much less of a buffer, and perhaps that's a buffer Youtube can aid in providing.

>There will always be people who believe in things that others consider harmful. I find it difficult to believe that you can or should realistically stop that with censorship.

Arguably it can be minimized; some researches point out that speech itself in its function as speech, what makes it such a powerful concept, can harm[0].

[0] https://global.oup.com/academic/product/speech-and-harm-9780...

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#273
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly YouTube has been extremely valuable even before they felt the public pressure to penalize "low quality content". Your comment about an "open marketplace of ideas having no value in itself" is very curious. The very idea of freedom of speech being a good thing is predicated on the idea that an open marketplace of ideas is a good thing. If it isn't, you may as well lobby the government to ban any and all speech…

Did you actually visit Gab or Voat? I'm asking you this because if you haven't, then you can't actually argue in favor of the 'marketplace of ideas' very well. Either that or you're not willing to argue in the defense of such sites. Or you're possibly being disingenuous, considering we've switched from corporate curation/censorship of their content towards government censorship which are two very different topics. As…

The concept of "marketplace of ideas" goes far beyond Gab and Voat. Two bad apples and cherry picked examples do not make for a counter argument.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm all about the idea behind letting people express themselves without being censored, but the stark reality is that the people pushing the envelope here are saying some pretty damaging things about other people in a hurtful and escalating way. I don't know how to square these two thoughts.

'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.' Granted, it's aspirational.

Definitely harder than it sounds if I’ve been told that as a kid and am still cultivating that as an adult

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#275

It this point, they should just be regulated by the various world governments. Though I don't like a world where google can override a given countries law, or googles tries to solve the issue for union of all the worlds government laws. I also don't like the possibilites of hidden metrics driving things that have such huge social implications.

I think 2019 is when this attitude started to get more mainstream within tech. I’m not opposed to it but I hope people understand that following local laws means that companies may end up enforcing laws from other cultures.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#276
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

both are pretty bad options. Better to let users curate and allow popularity to dictate visibility, surely?

Then YouTube risks things being popular that aren't aligned with it's collective politcal views.

That's already the case, libertarian and conservative content is more popular than progressive content on YouTube.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having one company be the sole gatekeeper for the overwhelming majority of the web's video content is not a solution. I struggle with this line of thinking because it's not specific enough. YouTube doesn't act as a gatekeeper for most video content. You can upload almost anything you want as long as its not grotesque or copyrighted. What most people mean when they say YouTube acts as a gatekeeper is "will YouTube p…

> a handful of large advertisers decided they didn't like a lot of the content on YouTube and refused to pay for it. The beef is with the advertisers, not YouTube. No, the beef is with YouTube. They could offer advertisers the option to pay more and only advertise on “high-quality” content, or pay less and advertise everywhere. Make it a slider with example videos and let them select what they’re comfortable with. In…

> But P&G shouldn’t dictate what’s worthy of advertising or not for every other advertiser AND publisher.

The advertisers on YouTube bargain as a collective. Sure 3-4 multinationals have a larger voice than the others, but they all took collective action to force YouTube to change their ways. It wasn't just P&G. It's no different than if a group of people staged a boycott - sure there might be some people who don't agree with the boycott, but the point of the boycott is to make a big enough voice to force another entity's hand.

If you don't like it, do your own sales. If you don't want to do that, then start publishing the sterile, family friendly, broad content that the advertiser-class is willing to pay for.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps a possible explanation is that such speech is already disallowed on many popular networks - Reddit, Twitter or Facebook, for instance. Antisemitism isn't new, it predates Reddit and Facebook and Twitter and we've already been through periods of history where antisemitism had widespread exposure in the public discourse yet democracy still defeated it. Antisemitism (and discrimination in general) is a bad ide…

>we've already been through periods of history where antisemitism had widespread exposure in the public discourse yet democracy still defeated it. Sartre was writing right after France was liberated from the Nazis, so from his own position in history he'd laugh if he were to hear you say that. Arguably anti-semitism has not enjoyed a popular resurgence since the downfall of the Nazis and I'd hazard a guess that it's…

The "buffer" you want YouTube to raise at the cost of freedom of speech is...ignorance? I can quote famous people too: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

And of course speech can harm, but that doesn't mean it can or should be stopped with censorship. Who decides what to censor? How can you realistically censor ideas in a free society with advanced communication tools? What kind of society will you create when its main defence against bad ideas is ignorance? I hope that citizens ask these questions before resorting to the childish solution of hiding bad things away.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#279
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming, blocking, label and dismissing as forms of dealing with `extremes`, is not only a bad solution, but only fuels those extremes - driving them into their own confirmation bubbles and onto more dangerous forms of outletting their opinions. What needs to happen is solid debate, constructivly listening and then disseminating and showing what they are wrong about and why, with proof. As for platforms, deplat…

> is not only a bad solution, but only fuels those extremes Where is the proof for this? This is an often repeated talking point when it comes to "censorship" or what not, but if anything we've seen that not doing anything leads to very predictable, very preventable, bad outcomes. We're just on the shore of unrestricted self-publishing and yet we're seeing the effects that these channels of information have had on ou…

Whilst no studies in these instances, early to tell. But blocking and deplatforming don't stop them being themselves instantly. Human nature is about fairness, people who feel they are unfairly treated, as they would by being blocked and deplatformed - will become more driven. Also banning anything has been proven not to work as well as intended. Look at music as one example of human nature and songs that wouldn't even chart, get banned by radio stations and boom, they suddenly chart without any radio or TV play. That was the case before the internet and such mentalities in humans still exist. Something that nobody is interested in - gets banned and suddenly people get curious about it and even if they didn't want it, will show more interest that they did prior to the ban. It's those people who are on the fence that will seek out those banned items and if that happens in isolated bubbles without balanced input. Then you see how it can be counterproductive.

But alas proof in these instances will only become apparent down the line and will go unchecked and unbalanced until then. That may well be a problem, maybe not. But it all gets down to wait and see, and that most often - never works out well at all. More so when the ban hammer has been played.

But you are totally correct and is a case of no simple solution, though I do feel banning is an extreme solution.

Yes the whole good-faith aspect is key, we presume the best and any bad-actor has a field day stamping all over that good-faith default, which sadly can change that good-faith default into a cynical pessimistic mentality and that is just depressing. But then we know that one bad apple can spoil the bunch. Just as true with humans.

Re: YouTube is trying to reward “quality” content

#280
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it does NOT mean less racists in the world. I don't think we have the data to make a conclusion on this point, but why is the lack of success in respect of the second point sufficient to make us want to stop the first point?

Because it creates echochambers and it weaponizes the term hate speech. Label everyone you disagree with a nazi and then demand platforms ban them. If the platforms do that, then people will slowly move on to other platforms. It's not going to change their beliefs one bit.

>Because it creates echochambers and it weaponizes the term hate speech.

Okay, so that's the downside of curating your platform. You need to contrast that downside with the upside of taking action.

Reasonable limits on Free Speech are plentiful, and there's an easy false dichotomy in believing that you can either censor everything or censor nothing. Is there a middle ground where we establish a solid rule set where we get most of the beneficial effects are retained, but a plurality of voices remain?

Also a note: >It's not going to change their beliefs one bit.

This isn't supported by research and it's antithetical to your first line. If platforming isn't going to change beliefs, then why care about it? Just move over to Gab, Voat or any of the other offshoots created for deplatformed groups. Have you visited them? They're cesspools.

Overt changes in social acceptability and norms cause populations to reconsider their views, which is why people are upset by being deplatformed in the first place.

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