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Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

japantoday.com

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Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#11

Post by toomuchtodo »

beaner wrote: post #9
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the West isn’t far behind. Only in Africa and a country or two in the Middle East is the birth rate above replacement rate.

Just a cursory Google search shows that countries like Mexico and the Philippines are way above the replacement rate as well so I don't think your comment is accurate.

Admittedly my comment was a result of a quick glance at the ourworldindata.org fertility map on a mobile device. I may have missed a country or two depending on the shading of the country.

https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#12

Post by laHiesh1 »

StraightShtr19 wrote: post #7

I wonder what if one of developed countries focused on males? Something like "future is male" and "support your father/husband/son" etc. Additionally remove any child support for single parents etc. Maybe that could work? Basically the opposite of current policies.

The negative attention on males is most definitely a factor although I don't think it's the only one. Creating policies that support male mental health and to curb male suicide would be a step in the right direction.

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#13

Post by greeneggs »

AngryData wrote: post #4

As a bit of a side tract, this is happening to all modernized nations, only Japan is one of the few modern countries that isn't allowing enough legal immigrants to make up for the decline. The US also has a negative native population growth, but because the doom and disaster a negative growth rate would cause upon our current economic models we allow shit tons of legal immigration to maintain growth.

Can you cite your sources? It is especially important when you are making potentially provocative claims ("doom and disaster", "shit tons of legal immigration").

In (fiscal year) 2017, the US admitted 1.1 million immigrants, 1.2 million in 2016. [1] US population has been increasing at about 2.3 million per year [2].

[1] https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/yearbook/2017/tab...

[2] https://www.multpl.com/united-states-population/table/by-yea...

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#14

Post by lamarpye »

irq11 wrote: post #10
AngryData wrote: post #4

As a bit of a side tract, this is happening to all modernized nations, only Japan is one of the few modern countries that isn't allowing enough legal immigrants to make up for the decline. The US also has a negative native population growth, but because the doom and disaster a negative growth rate would cause upon our current economic models we allow shit tons of legal immigration to maintain growth.

Japan just passed a radical (for Japan) change to their immigration rules, to allow in more foreign workers in a number of low-skill categories. It’s also comparatively easy for skilled workers to get visas. (The bigger problem is making Japanese companies treat these workers as equals...but they’re coming around.) Now, contrast to the current reactionary government of the United States, and their attitude toward imm…

The US allows around 1 million legal immigrants every year. I don't see how this is moving an in opposite direction from Japan's recent changes.

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#15

Post by theprotocol »

Can we stop pretending birth rate decline couldn't self-stabilize? I don't see populations organically shrinking to 0 as a realistic scenario.

I for one am tired of extremely misguided and unjustified attempts at engineering everything on the planet.

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#16

Post by glhaynes »

lamarpye wrote: post #14
irq11 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan just passed a radical (for Japan) change to their immigration rules, to allow in more foreign workers in a number of low-skill categories. It’s also comparatively easy for skilled workers to get visas. (The bigger problem is making Japanese companies treat these workers as equals...but they’re coming around.) Now, contrast to the current reactionary government of the United States, and their attitude toward imm…

The US allows around 1 million legal immigrants every year. I don't see how this is moving an in opposite direction from Japan's recent changes.

We seem to be moving in a relatively less open-to-immigration direction while still currently taking a large absolute number of immigrants.

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#18

Post by matvore »

irq11 wrote: post #10
AngryData wrote: post #4

As a bit of a side tract, this is happening to all modernized nations, only Japan is one of the few modern countries that isn't allowing enough legal immigrants to make up for the decline. The US also has a negative native population growth, but because the doom and disaster a negative growth rate would cause upon our current economic models we allow shit tons of legal immigration to maintain growth.

Japan just passed a radical (for Japan) change to their immigration rules, to allow in more foreign workers in a number of low-skill categories. It’s also comparatively easy for skilled workers to get visas. (The bigger problem is making Japanese companies treat these workers as equals...but they’re coming around.) Now, contrast to the current reactionary government of the United States, and their attitude toward imm…

Japan doesn't really need complex or quota-based immigration laws because foreigners are not super happy to live there forever once they've tried it. More so than legal barriers, there are cultural ones. And there are borders in our minds just as much as on maps (e.g. preconceptions that we're stubborn to let go of).

The US is different, of course. People like it here once they've arrived. I can't say why, nor do I buy the stereotype that US culture is more open or individualistic. But the US arguable needs laws quota-based and micro-managey, since they are managing a huge amount of people from more diverse backgrounds. Japan is managing fewer potential immigrants and guests, and most of their immigrants are geographically close to Japan.

Despite the immigration laws being easier to grok and less authoritarian on paper, Japan is pretty strict in its enforcement of those laws. Put all I've said together and I don't know if one country is more reactionary than the other, but I think both countries are moving toward a more balanced, less eccentric immigration system at the moment.

(why you should listen to me: I'm an American and lived in Japan for four years and had to go through the process of getting my wife a spouse visa 2 years into my stay. I dealt with immigration a few times. I went to many different cities and vacations and such, and talked to people that don't speak English and don't have a passport, so I have a representative sample set.)

Re: Japan's working population drops further - and the number of foreigners rise

#20

Post by burfog »

StraightShtr19 wrote: post #7

I wonder what if one of developed countries focused on males? Something like "future is male" and "support your father/husband/son" etc. Additionally remove any child support for single parents etc. Maybe that could work? Basically the opposite of current policies.

Clearly yes, but people don't want to accept the implications. Current policy has very obvious and direct benefit, while the harm that makes us miserable is very indirect and diffuse. The struggle to afford rent in San Francisco or Manhattan is many steps removed from the policy changes.
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