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Fucking Color Picker

tonymccoy.me

101–110 of 140 posts

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody who works on a cross-platform version of a generic utility has potentially many millions of users. Not the same thing. And other threads have established there are already popular color pickers this would be competing with if rewritten in a native lean style, that this would first need to take mindshare away from as well. I'm going to assume the answer is "no, this does not currently have a million users"…

> I'm going to assume the answer is "no, this does not currently have a million users". You can spend all day asking irrelevant questions and answering them yourself, it won't get us anywhere. The point is that "developer time is more expensive than hardware" is not a valid argument from the user's perspective. As you can see from the complaints here, people already find the color picker less attractive because it us…

> You can spend all day asking irrelevant questions

We're discussing how dev time is best spent in service to the end user (and environment.) It's absolutely relevant.

> The point is that "developer time is more expensive than hardware" is not a valid argument from the user's perspective. As you can see from the complaints here, people already find the color picker less attractive because it uses wasteful Electron. It's not a good product, regardless of how cheap it was for the developer to produce and will be less successful as a result.

Things the end user does care about include features, price, and the actual existence of the end product, all things I see frequently sacrificed by the "maximum efficiency at any cost" crowd, because they're misallocating dev time. They aren't even optimizing the actual efficiency bottlenecks half the time, just micro-optimizing some unimportant edge case.

You're right that the discussion doesn't matter to the end user, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision. As you can also see from the posts here, not everyone is convinced it's a big deal either. People are constructing strawman arguments "these devs and their 4k monitors and 32GB+ machines", but I'm using electron apps from an underpowered 8GB laptop just fine.

Yes, if you're traveling and downloading it over a mobile connection, it'll take a hit. Yes, I'm sure you can find a worse laptop than mine, and if you search hard enough you'll even find one where the fact that it's an electron app will be a problem. Yes, you can spend more resources to make a better app - that's always true, the question is where diminishing returns make that no longer cost effective. Yes, if there's no outlets nearby, it won't stretch battery life as far.

But no, I'm not convinced that calling it "not a good product" as a result of being an electron app is quite right either. Not the best product it possibly could be, but no product is.

> You don't need justification for developing something that isn't good because of wrong or selfish priorities,

Nor am I convinced there are wrong or selfish priorities in using electron. What, exactly, is wrong or selfish with saving dev time to work on something more important to the end user? Even if that's another product entirely?

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What´s the problem with this? It's 120 MB for literally a fucking color picker.

yes and it works everywhere, everytime.

Every native app I've used works everywhere I've used it, every time as well.

That native apps were wildly unstable, or that it was impossible to find native apps that ran on different platforms before Electron is a myth. Electron didn't solve those problems, because they weren't problems.

Electron solved the problem of "how can I, a web developer, run a website on the desktop but make it seem like a native app and call myself an application developer?"

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to assume the answer is "no, this does not currently have a million users". You can spend all day asking irrelevant questions and answering them yourself, it won't get us anywhere. The point is that "developer time is more expensive than hardware" is not a valid argument from the user's perspective. As you can see from the complaints here, people already find the color picker less attractive because it us…

> You can spend all day asking irrelevant questions We're discussing how dev time is best spent in service to the end user (and environment.) It's absolutely relevant. > The point is that "developer time is more expensive than hardware" is not a valid argument from the user's perspective. As you can see from the complaints here, people already find the color picker less attractive because it uses wasteful Electron. I…

> What, exactly, is wrong or selfish with saving dev time to work on something more important to the end user? Even if that's another product entirely?

It's simply completely irrelevant what the developer might or might not be working on also in your imagination, when we are judging the product based on its technical merits.

Inventing some extremely important better use of the developer's time to justify inflicting a wasteful 55MB download on the world, is a strawman argument of the same quality you complained about.

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#104

I had become so used to just grabbing color values from any old pixel on the screen..., but on Windows the best way I came up with was to take a screenshot, wait for Photoshop to open, then get the color value through the PS eyedropper tool. That took probably 30 seconds to get a single color, since Adobe software is somehow still dog slow on brand new hardware. You can do the same thing in MS Paint and save yourself…

and you can leave it running in the background all day long

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah dude this line of thinking got us here. We need to reach back to what the OG's in computing thought about. Small size, fast performance. Limit ourselves. I read about this dude who purposely writes software on a shitheap laptop just so that "if it's fast here, it's fast on modern mobile phones." Even my app written in Elixir and uses 160MB of RAM after letting it run for a week; I've been thinking: "Maybe I could…

Hehe, kinda funny when an application comes with more security vulnerabilities than it has lines of code for its own logic ;-) EDIT: edited to make it less ambiguous

My app does very little and is meant to be self-hosted for your own use. Or are you talking about Elixir or Nim as a language?

Edit: Oh I get it you actually meant:

"Hehe, kinda funny when your application written for Electron comes with more security vulnerabilities than it has lines of code for its own logic ;-)"

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#106
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe, kinda funny when an application comes with more security vulnerabilities than it has lines of code for its own logic ;-) EDIT: edited to make it less ambiguous

Sorry, is this a comment on elixer or Nim?

Neither.

It is about having a color picker (probably just a few lines of code) bundled with quite a set of dependencies and complex chromium runtime environment which does not get updated regularly. Therefore they keep their vulnerabilities even after they are known and fixed in later versions of the dependencies.

With small footprint applications, you are less likely to have such problems.

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#107
I use pyautogui for this, pyautogui.displayMousePosition().

It obviously doesn't have a fancy preview, different representations or the other stuff you would get in a proper color picker, but it's fast and easy if you already have pyautogui installed and works on both linux and windows.

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#108

I had become so used to just grabbing color values from any old pixel on the screen..., but on Windows the best way I came up with was to take a screenshot, wait for Photoshop to open, then get the color value through the PS eyedropper tool. That took probably 30 seconds to get a single color, since Adobe software is somehow still dog slow on brand new hardware. You can do the same thing in MS Paint and save yourself…

Nope, you cannot colorpick with MS Paint from the whole visible screen (i.e. all windows and the desktop)

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#109
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice breakdown of wasted resources.. It's frustrated me for a long time how people are carelessly bundling unused code, which is unfortunately common in JavaScript-land. Including only the bundled/minified app is possible, leaving no node_modules folder at all - or, at least, just the native binaries needed. As for bundling the whole Electron runtime on every app: technically it's possible to have a shared runtime -…

I'm not sure what it is about the node development environment but you are right. I haven't seen such wildly complicated dependency trees in any other language. Literally hundreds of modules can come together to make even simple applications. Is there an idiom or ethos in node land that aims for tiny re-usable packages? I am not criticising if there is, just genuinely curious. I have been writing JS applications for…

It might be the Unix philosophy taken to its logical extreme. Everything should do one thing and do it well. So now we have libraries that are literally a single function.

Re: Fucking Color Picker

#110
post #44

Complains about Photoshop being slow to start. Writes color picker in Electron.

One of the slowest things in photoshop is the initial document selection/welcome screen.. which is probably... javascript+browser engine.

And I also think the slow "new document" screen is also javascript

Also let's not forget all those stupid creative cloud background updater jobs / services... that use node.js

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