Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions • Hacker News Board

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#11

Post by lazyjones » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

MordodeMaru wrote: post #5

kzcqt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This baffles me. The government is there to serve the people. People are unhappy about what the current mayor is doing, that's why she's getting kicked out. Advocating for the EU to step in and force people to stay unhappy will only increase the anti-EU sentiment, but I guess the cat is out of the bag on that one.

Spain is by far the least anti EU country in the EU. Also, it is a matter of who enforces pollution policy: Madrid is a city with limitations, Europe on the other hand is able to dictate directives. On regards to the elections, let's see if she gets kicked out.

> Spain is by far the least anti EU country in the EU

No. In the latest Eurobarometer, confidence in the EU is one of the lowest in Spain. 54% of respondents do not trust the EU, vs. e.g. 21% in Lithuania or 31% in Denmark.

http://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/...

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#12

Post by kzcqt » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

dingallero wrote: post #8

kzcqt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This baffles me. The government is there to serve the people. People are unhappy about what the current mayor is doing, that's why she's getting kicked out. Advocating for the EU to step in and force people to stay unhappy will only increase the anti-EU sentiment, but I guess the cat is out of the bag on that one.

Pretty much any city in EU has now some forms of traffic restriction policies. The same is true for where I live as well. The issue is not really the restriction, but the lack of alternatives. Very few cities have a decent metro zone: these cities are the only ones where I see no objections to stricter traffic policies. Most cities are only served by public _road_ transport services. This doesn't have the same level…

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#13

Post by Proven » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

As if it's all upside and no downsides which the philosopher kings didn't even bother to measure, such as the hugely increased inconvenience and decreased productivity and incomes. Morons.

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#14

Post by kingosticks » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

kzcqt wrote: post #12

dingallero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any city in EU has now some forms of traffic restriction policies. The same is true for where I live as well. The issue is not really the restriction, but the lack of alternatives. Very few cities have a decent metro zone: these cities are the only ones where I see no objections to stricter traffic policies. Most cities are only served by public _road_ transport services. This doesn't have the same level…

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

This article talks about the improvements Madrid made to its public transport system. Are you guys talking about in general or specifically in Madrid?

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#15

Post by dingallero » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

kzcqt wrote: post #12

dingallero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any city in EU has now some forms of traffic restriction policies. The same is true for where I live as well. The issue is not really the restriction, but the lack of alternatives. Very few cities have a decent metro zone: these cities are the only ones where I see no objections to stricter traffic policies. Most cities are only served by public _road_ transport services. This doesn't have the same level…

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region.

This in turn creates this shitty illusion of "public" service that nobody wants to use, because:

- it's unreliable (delays and strikes are common) - short working hours - poorly planned (or no) interconnections with other public services - abusive service costs to recoup the costs

Even factoring all expenses of a car, several bus connections I was forced to take in the past where in the order of 5-6 times the total cost of car ownership. This doesn't even include the grave annoyances I listed above.

Sad :(

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#16

Post by kzcqt » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

dingallero wrote: post #15

kzcqt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region. This in turn creates this shitty illusion of "public" service that nobody wants to use, because: - it's unreliable (delays and strikes are common) - short working hours - poorly planned (or no) interconnections with other public services - abusive service costs to recoup the costs E…

>In several places where I lived the public transport road service was subcontracted to the lowest-bidding private company of the region.

They are required to do so by law.

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#17

Post by lazyjones » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #6

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #2

And the current mayor will probably lose office next month to parties that have promised to remove said restrictions, because in Spain hardly anyone cares about breathing poison. Sadly, being able to take and park cars everywhere seems to be a much higher priority for much of the population (I say this as a Spaniard). My hope is that the EU somehow intervenes and stops them from taking steps back in this respect. As…

> Air quality in the center has also improved, with pollution falling by 8.9% compared to the historic average for the December-March period, according to measurements taken from the Plaza del Carmen monitoring station, the only one located within the Madrid Central area. 8.9% ? Is a significant difference? Was the previous more polluted air any dangerous to breathe comparatively to all other daily risks people face?…

> 8.9% ? Is a significant difference?

Yes, but how much of it is due to improvements in newer combustion engines and new EU-wide emission norms?

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#18

Post by AuthorizedCust » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

There are more choices than the extremes. But if those are the only choices offered, the citizenry may simply prefer more pollution over reductions in productivity or convenience.

That's not an irrational choice, unless your prerogative is that there's no value in personal transportation, which is extreme. I see that a lot, and it's a first cousin of the "if it just saved one life" argument, which erroneously assumes there's no value in any other perspectives.

Nothing comes without cost. Even public transit has consequences, and at least in the USA, it's far less "clean" than commonly believed.

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#19

Post by the8472 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:46 PM UTC

kzcqt wrote: post #12

dingallero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much any city in EU has now some forms of traffic restriction policies. The same is true for where I live as well. The issue is not really the restriction, but the lack of alternatives. Very few cities have a decent metro zone: these cities are the only ones where I see no objections to stricter traffic policies. Most cities are only served by public _road_ transport services. This doesn't have the same level…

Yeah, thanks for this comment. That's what makes this matter worse: they restrict private transport, but public transport just gets worse and more expensive every year.

The city where I work has slashed public transport prices, -40% for me, as part of a package to combat pollution exceeding EU regulations.

Re: Emissions fall in Madrid city center thanks to new traffic restrictions

#20

Post by stfp » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

kzcqt wrote: post #4

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #2

And the current mayor will probably lose office next month to parties that have promised to remove said restrictions, because in Spain hardly anyone cares about breathing poison. Sadly, being able to take and park cars everywhere seems to be a much higher priority for much of the population (I say this as a Spaniard). My hope is that the EU somehow intervenes and stops them from taking steps back in this respect. As…

This baffles me. The government is there to serve the people. People are unhappy about what the current mayor is doing, that's why she's getting kicked out. Advocating for the EU to step in and force people to stay unhappy will only increase the anti-EU sentiment, but I guess the cat is out of the bag on that one.

The government is also here to take into account the work of scientists & urbanists and lead the people towards a better, healthier and sustainable future.