Canada’s legal pot is going well • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#21

Post by throwaway2048 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 7:52 AM UTC

DKnoll wrote: post #2

This doesn't echo public sentiment at all. Many are critical of the way implementation has happened, whether for or against (at least in Ontario, the most populous province and the one I base everything that follows on). Those who are 'for' are upset about the supply issues that have occurred with the legal supply being limited (long delays), more expensive and often poor quality (moldy). Those who are indifferent ar…

There is a concerted campaign going on online right now to paint legal weed as a massive failure, so the current Canadian government cant count it as an achievement.

Hasn't been perfect of course, but its far from the disaster certain groups are trying to paint it as.

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#22

Post by RileyJames » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

sintaxi wrote: post #14

wolco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alleyway deals are probably easier but less common. It is risky to open a storefront but always was.

Listen to what I'm saying. The entire province of BC had just one single cannabis storefront on day of legalization - despite hundreds of storefronts applying for permits. So customers went from buying weed in storefronts to having to do alleyway deals because of legalization. https://vancouversun.com/cannabis/cannabis-news/partaking-so...

Errr? Doesn’t match my experience. I was in BC 3 months before legalisation, and 3 months after.

Nothing changed on the “legal” date.

But I did hear from one store that they were planning to close down, so they could legally apply for a licence and re-open. So the transition wasn’t as smooth as it could have been.

But no one started doing alley way deals “because legalisation”. There was already a large population who simply saw the stores as middle men, who marked up prices. Why buy from a store when you know who the store buys from? And why shouldn’t that continue?

I can buy from the brewery or the liquor store, why should marijuana be any different?

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#23

Post by DKnoll » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:05 AM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #19

DKnoll wrote: post #2

This doesn't echo public sentiment at all. Many are critical of the way implementation has happened, whether for or against (at least in Ontario, the most populous province and the one I base everything that follows on). Those who are 'for' are upset about the supply issues that have occurred with the legal supply being limited (long delays), more expensive and often poor quality (moldy). Those who are indifferent ar…

The Ontario provincial government is a walking disaster, and their implementation of marijuana legalization is just a reflection of that. The rollout went smoothly in other provinces.

Despite my general negative feelings toward the Ford government, their privatisation of stores was the right move. Unfortunately, it came far too late (the previous Wynne government opted for government-run stores, both retail and online, before the Ford government was elected four months prior to legalisation) and ended up giving everyone too little time to handle it gracefully.

I have heard that the roll-out went very well in Alberta, although they also have a very lax approach to alcohol sales unlike Ontario.

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#24

Post by andai » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:12 AM UTC

gnulinux wrote: post #9

Legal pot is not going good anywhere around the world except very few places like Colorado. This is because politicians insist on not paying attention to scientific studies and keep doing irrational things. Look at Massachusetts, one of the first states to legalize cannabis, still handful of legal shops, only 1 in Boston area. What changed is now a few mega corps (US) or the government (Canada) are your drug dealers,…

Long time coffee and cannabis user here, I'm curious in what ways you'd say cannabis is safer than coffee?

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#25

Post by DKnoll » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:12 AM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #21

DKnoll wrote: post #2

This doesn't echo public sentiment at all. Many are critical of the way implementation has happened, whether for or against (at least in Ontario, the most populous province and the one I base everything that follows on). Those who are 'for' are upset about the supply issues that have occurred with the legal supply being limited (long delays), more expensive and often poor quality (moldy). Those who are indifferent ar…

There is a concerted campaign going on online right now to paint legal weed as a massive failure, so the current Canadian government cant count it as an achievement. Hasn't been perfect of course, but its far from the disaster certain groups are trying to paint it as.

There are many groups who don't just try to paint it as a failure, they strongly believe it is one. No disinformation campaign needed, they just speak their firmly held beliefs and real perceptions.

Most of the actual failures fall on the provincial governments in my view. I think cannabis legalisation will probably be one of the few positive achievements history sees from the Trudeau administration although I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#26

Post by DKnoll » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

gnulinux wrote: post #9

Legal pot is not going good anywhere around the world except very few places like Colorado. This is because politicians insist on not paying attention to scientific studies and keep doing irrational things. Look at Massachusetts, one of the first states to legalize cannabis, still handful of legal shops, only 1 in Boston area. What changed is now a few mega corps (US) or the government (Canada) are your drug dealers,…

>or the government (Canada) are your drug dealer

The Canadian federal government does not sell cannabis. Some of the provincial governments do but not all. Many (I love that word) provinces, including Ontario, allow the private sector to sell cannabis with the correct license.

>When alcohol and coffee are so normalized that people can consume these drugs even in workplaces, it's simply ridiculous how we treat weed, quite possibly a safer drug

There are very few workplaces in Canada where drinking on the job would be accepted. Between cannabis and alcohol, cannabis is probably more acceptable. Caffeine definitely causes a lesser level of impairment than either cannabis or alcohol and is not really comparable. A workplace doesn't really care about the level of medical harms caused by a drug, just the level of impairment, which is why 'nobody' (disclaimer: I'm sure a statistically insignificant number of people do) gets fired for taking a smoke break (off company time of course).

Keep in mind that cannabis is technically illegal across the US, the US federal government just chooses not to enforce the law in renegade states for the most part. The Canadian and American situations are not comparable.

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#27

Post by DanBC » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:30 AM UTC

DKnoll wrote: post #16

DanBC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the rare people We have no idea of the prevalance of this kind of person. There's no research. (I am in favour of legalisation.)

It's honestly hard to believe there were people who didn't smoke simply because it was illegal, even though getting charged for personal amounts of cannabis in the GTA was about as common as being struck by lightning. That said I applaud them. That's a very respectable level of restraint and community-mindedness (I swear that's a word).

> It's honestly hard to believe there were people who didn't smoke simply because it was illegal

Yep, I agree.

But we need to talk not just about what happens today, but what happens in the future. If cannabis is normalised and legally available will that increase the use of cannabis?

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#28

Post by bobthepanda » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:30 AM UTC

gnulinux wrote: post #9

Legal pot is not going good anywhere around the world except very few places like Colorado. This is because politicians insist on not paying attention to scientific studies and keep doing irrational things. Look at Massachusetts, one of the first states to legalize cannabis, still handful of legal shops, only 1 in Boston area. What changed is now a few mega corps (US) or the government (Canada) are your drug dealers,…

Washington seems like a functional market in my personal experience.

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#29

Post by DKnoll » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:33 AM UTC

charleshan wrote: post #8

The Candian Government is getting a cut of a large market and will be using additional tax revenue to improve the quality of life in Canada. It is no different than how cigarette and alcohol are being sold today.

In Ontario at least sales of alcohol and tobacco are very different from how cannabis is sold. Somebody not familiar with the country might say "well Dylan, that's Ontario, what about the other 12 provinces and territories?" but Ontario is over a third of the population so really it is the best one to use as an example instead of discussing the other 12 jurisdictions.

The federal government gets a quarter of the cannabis tax revenues (the remaining three quarters go to the province) capped at one hundred million with any overage going solely to the province so it really is a drop in the bucket at far as the fed is concerned.

Re: Canada’s legal pot is going well

#30

Post by tluyben2 » Sat, Apr 13, 2019, 8:36 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #15

DKnoll wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I smoked exceedingly rarely before legalization (3 times in my entire life) and now I smoke often. You are the boogeyman to the people who oppose legalisation. One of the rare people who didn't smoke simply to obey the law and are now getting stoned because it's legal. :P I think the people who rarely smoked are the most happy, because they are not worried about a minor price increase but also appreciate the conven…

> One of the rare people We have no idea of the prevalance of this kind of person. There's no research. (I am in favour of legalisation.)

I wonder how much data there is from countries where it has been legal for a long time, like the Netherlands. When I grew up it was as normal as normal smoking and drinking. Mushrooms were(and are, but they banned some of them I think) also legal but that was not very normal to use, at least not in my circles. All my friends and many of their parents smoked a spliff or 2 in the weekend. Same as they drank some beers. But only the illegal stuff (at that time xtc, speed, heroine and cocaine) was used to excesses that caused issues. I don't think they ever legalized those, but non-dealers were not arrested and the police checked the quality of drugs at parties to filter out bad stuff; when that started happening, the abuse went down too. My crazy house friends (usually converts from metal to house at the beginning of the 90s) went from dangerous abuse to more controlled and moderate use now that it was 'normal'.

So yes, that's all anecdotal, but at least in my circles I have seen over the past 30 years that (semi)legalizing indeed helps a lot; because there is a 40-50 year trackrecord in countries like NL, there must be someone who researched it and has data about the actual effects of legalization and 'gedoog' (semi-legalization) strategies?