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VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

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Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#91

Post by kotrunga »

zeusk wrote: post #64
millstone wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it sends MS every keypress in search fields - https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/49161

If you had actually read that issue, > Lol, probably just an oversight because they made the search a lot better. > So I think it only does this on the settings file and not on other files ;) > https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2018/04/25/bing-settings...

No matter what, it's an opt-out setting that can only be disabled with:

"workbench.settings.enableNaturalLanguageSearch": false

That's unacceptable.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#92

Post by wongarsu »

madprops wrote: post #85
wongarsu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like they legally released it under MIT. They legally can't just revoke a license grant, even completely unpublishing it by rewriting git history wouldn't solve that.

I want Microsoft to share the vscode extensions, but that reasoning seems weird to me. MS is hosting the extensions, they could decide what applications get access to them. But also saying anything published by mistake immediately makes it part of the current state of an open source project seems too violent. Software authors should decide the terms of their software, maybe past versions maintain the license included…

> MS is hosting the extensions, they could decide what applications get access to them.

A better way to do that would be to add some trivial access protection (like a password they didn't accidentially publish). No matter how weak, any attempt to circumvent it would violate anti-hacking laws in most jurisdictions.

> "No haha sorry you released as MIT at some point so it's now free forever mate"

For you existing code that's exactly how it works. Otherwise the concept of licensing something becomes close to meaningless. Imagine Google releases Kubernetes as open source, you build your business on it, and suddenly Google turns around and says "just kidding, everyone who wants to use Kubernetes after next monday has to pay us absurd licensing fees". Using anything open source would be an insane risk if that was possible.

Instead what people usually do is to say "everything I do from now on is closed source. You can maintain a fork of the old version, but good luck keeping up with my version". Or alternatively "everything I do from now on is under [GPL/AGPL/similar restrictive license], if you want to use it beyond that contact me for a more permissive license deal". You can give people more permissions on things you own, or attach fewer permission to new things than you did in the past, but you can't take permissions you already gave away.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#93

Post by prepend »

jameskraus wrote: post #7

I suspect the tracking in VSCode is mainly used to improve the product. It's probably in my best interest, and the interest of the community as a whole to leave tracking on. I mean, I get it, HN is usually a more skeptical and security-focused crowd. At the same time, it's likely MS will just take that information and tailor their bugfixes and features to the things I need most, so by all means I want them to have it…

I think you’re right, but it needs to be a user choice. If presented with an option, I would likely leave it turned on 90% of the time.

I hope this project motivates MS to open source the runtime and making tracking a user- selected option.

I really like Code and think MS has really helped the dev community by making it so great and free. But I would like to see them embrace f/l/oss for all their non-core products and stay on track for customer/dev-friendliness.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#94

Post by paavoova »

fxfan wrote: post #80
paavoova wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telemetry helps improve products and opt-out Did you mean to write "opt-in", or are you suggesting it's OK for software to refuse the choice to opt out of data tracking? "Power users" simply do not use such software or block connections via firewall.

Please don't spread FUD. Tracking makes it sound like I'm being followed. This is collecting usage-data.

GPS-related telemetry, say in modern cars or smartphones, is akin to being followed. The latter isn't even anonymized, e.g. recently police identified suspects by issuing a warrant to Google for devices in the vicinity, or Tesla having all the car data in case of an accident. Web tracking such as analytics or canvas, things like "advertising tags" being assigned to your profile, is you being digitally followed across various sites you visit. "Usage-data" decided by developers, malicious or otherwise, may not be just usage data from the user's perspective.

You can hardly dismiss all telemetry concerns as invalid when "telemetry" is a catchall term for most any data collection. And the other side of it is the user and being in control of the software they run, which entails opt-in or at the minimum leaving the option to opt-out.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#95

Post by prepend »

writepub wrote: post #58
kumarvvr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know it. They just don't trust Microsoft.

That's mighty dissonant and hypocritical of them to use and benefit from Microsoft's work and investment, and claim that their telemetry is the part they don't trust.

VSCode is OSS right? So microsoft’s Work and Investment was specifically designed to be reused without any direct financial compensation.

I don’t quite understand your point. Do you think that it’s hypocrtical to use and benefit from OSS work and investment? It seems important to respect the creator’s intent and if software is released under an OSS license it’s not dissonant or hypocritical or bad to reuse, or even make money under many licenses. It’s a feature, not a bug.

In the 90s there used to be these companies that sold “internet in a box” in waldenbooks and other stores in the US. It was about $70 but it was all just OSS stuff- trumpet winsock, Eudora, mosaic, etc. I thought it was really crazy because it’s all available for free. One day I was in line behind an old guy who was buying it and he was so happy because it was conveniently packaging everything together and he had no idea how to bootstrap all these tools onto his PC. OSS is designed to allow this.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#96

Post by Stuckinsofa »

kotrunga wrote: post #91
zeusk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had actually read that issue, > Lol, probably just an oversight because they made the search a lot better. > So I think it only does this on the settings file and not on other files ;) > https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2018/04/25/bing-settings...

No matter what, it's an opt-out setting that can only be disabled with: "workbench.settings.enableNaturalLanguageSearch": false That's unacceptable.

Can you explain why this search feature is a problem because I don't understand?

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#97

Post by aaronbrethorst »

oldmanhorton wrote: post #29
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chris Dias offers up a suggestion for how to investigate further here: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1... But, speaking as a developer of an open source software product that includes telemetry[1], I expect they're tracking really basic stuff, like: DAU, MAU, edited file types, project size, crash reports, etc. Basically, information that helps to internally justify the continued existenc…

Unrelated, OneBusAway is lovely and I just went to settings to make sure I had telemetry enabled for it. I had no idea it was open source!

Thank you! I can always use more hands with it, too. I’m essentially the only person working on the iOS version right now, and I do it pretty much entirely on a volunteer basis (ie nights and weekends, when I’m lucky)

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#98

Post by sonnyblarney »

I do not trust Facebook with my personal data on their site, but I would absolutely trust them to turn off arbitrary telemetry data if in fact it said it was 'off'.

I just don't think there's a big evil conflict of interest or whatever for this stuff to get slippery.

No yet anyhow.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#99

Post by madprops »

wongarsu wrote: post #92
madprops wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want Microsoft to share the vscode extensions, but that reasoning seems weird to me. MS is hosting the extensions, they could decide what applications get access to them. But also saying anything published by mistake immediately makes it part of the current state of an open source project seems too violent. Software authors should decide the terms of their software, maybe past versions maintain the license included…

> MS is hosting the extensions, they could decide what applications get access to them. A better way to do that would be to add some trivial access protection (like a password they didn't accidentially publish). No matter how weak, any attempt to circumvent it would violate anti-hacking laws in most jurisdictions. > "No haha sorry you released as MIT at some point so it's now free forever mate" For you existing code…

>Instead what people usually do is to say "everything I do from now on is closed source. You can maintain a fork of the old version, but good luck keeping up with my version". Or alternatively "everything I do from now on is under [GPL/AGPL/similar restrictive license], if you want to use it beyond that contact me for a more permissive license deal".

Yes this is what I was describing as reasonable. "Everything after this is governed by X terms" is reasonable. But the whole thing can sound like even if you change terms, previous licenses would still apply, which would be wrong.

Re: VSCodium – An Open Source Visual Studio Code Without Trackers

#100

Post by marquis-chacha »

wongarsu wrote: post #92
madprops wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want Microsoft to share the vscode extensions, but that reasoning seems weird to me. MS is hosting the extensions, they could decide what applications get access to them. But also saying anything published by mistake immediately makes it part of the current state of an open source project seems too violent. Software authors should decide the terms of their software, maybe past versions maintain the license included…

> MS is hosting the extensions, they could decide what applications get access to them. A better way to do that would be to add some trivial access protection (like a password they didn't accidentially publish). No matter how weak, any attempt to circumvent it would violate anti-hacking laws in most jurisdictions. > "No haha sorry you released as MIT at some point so it's now free forever mate" For you existing code…

When something was obviously committed in error such as in this case (I say obviously because it is well documented that the URL's are not to be made public, and the commit was reverted quickly), I think it is in bad faith to take that mistake and use it against the company giving you the free product. Sure, it might be legally fine, but from an ethical standpoint (and even from a "lets not make OS sound so dangerous to companies that they never want to contribute again" standpoint), I personally don't think this is in good faith at all.
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