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IPFS Project Roadmap

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Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#41

Post by fiatjaf »

dymk wrote: post #9
fiatjaf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dynamic content is not the problem. I don't want dynamic content. I think HTTP and servers are the way to go on dynamic content. I just tried, for years, to use IPFS as a way to distribute static content (you know, stuff that will never ever change, even if that stuff is referenced from a dynamic location), and the problems I encountered were so many I finally gave up. I would love to see all these problems solved an…

If you want IPFS to be a replacement technology for the web, you need dynamic content. Else, it's a useful static content distribution network, but it's not "the web", not even in the sense of what the web was in the 90s, or the "web" any more than Bittorrent is. Now, obviously, they're under no obligation to deliver anything. But I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say: The vision of a IPFS-powered web w…

I didn't say it's everything. I don't think HTTP must die or will die. HTTP is great, it's awesome, wonderful. I would like IPFS to exist along with HTTP, that's what I said.

Actually, I think the fact that IPFS developers are trying to replace HTTP one of the reasons they fail so awfully in producing a good IPFS for static content. They try to integrate much more stuff than actually needed in the protocol.

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#42

Post by fiatjaf »

fwip wrote: post #24
marknadal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For dynamic data, you need to use a CRDT system like GUN ( https://github.com/amark/gun ). For instance, see P2P Reddit ( http://notabug.io ) which: - Running in production with GUN. - Handling about 42,000 monthly visitors. ( https://www.similarweb.com/website/notabug.io ) - Has done ~1TB in 1 day of decentralized traffic. You can then configure GUN to save to IPFS as the blob/storage engine (or we have filesystem,…

It's a shame that so many P2P advocates - or at least the ones using the stuff built with P2P tech - are very loud alt-right types. I popped on notabug.io just now, and the chat is full of swastikas, racial slurs, and the most up-voted posts are primarily anti-gay misinformation. I see you wrote GUN, which I'm sure was no small feat, and it looks like an impressive piece of technology. How do you feel about your tech…

I just clicked on notabug and didn't see any swastikas or racial slurs. Are you lying?

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#43

Post by fwip »

fiatjaf wrote: post #42
fwip wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that so many P2P advocates - or at least the ones using the stuff built with P2P tech - are very loud alt-right types. I popped on notabug.io just now, and the chat is full of swastikas, racial slurs, and the most up-voted posts are primarily anti-gay misinformation. I see you wrote GUN, which I'm sure was no small feat, and it looks like an impressive piece of technology. How do you feel about your tech…

I just clicked on notabug and didn't see any swastikas or racial slurs. Are you lying?

You think somebody would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

Warning: image contains racial slurs and swastikas: https://i.imgur.com/0kdxzVR.png

A little later in the chat, the developer chimes in and talks about some stuff. Then some people angrily accost them for censoring things. If the Nazis and the racists aren't censored, I don't want to think about the odious content that is.

Edit: Here's a thread from... yesterday, where a bunch of users are mad about the "censorship" of the developer hiding a swastika post from the front-page (not even deleting it or removing it from whatever their equivalent of a sub-reddit is): https://notabug.io/t/whatever/comments/509b9189ece85515671d3...

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#44

Post by IgorPartola »

resonious wrote: post #10
dymk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want IPFS to be a replacement technology for the web, you need dynamic content. Else, it's a useful static content distribution network, but it's not "the web", not even in the sense of what the web was in the 90s, or the "web" any more than Bittorrent is. Now, obviously, they're under no obligation to deliver anything. But I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say: The vision of a IPFS-powered web w…

I'm under the impression that the original comment was referring to an IPFS-powered web, rather than the web being powered by IPFS. Good ol' HTTP servers will continue to form the web as we know it, and IPFS can provide a new web of static content.

So at best IPFS is a replacement for something like S3? If I want to create an application, I can have the static content portion of it hosted on IPFS, but the brunt still on my own servers? That’s a very niche use case, I would say. And while it allows me to host my copy of the anarchist’s cookbook, it’s not going to be good for much else.

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#45

Post by pfranz »

0xb100db1ade wrote: post #16

I love the idea of IPFS, but I can't think of a use case not covered by torrents. Would someone mind enlightening me regarding what sets IPFS apart from torrents?

I was at a place that tried to distribute their files via bittorrent. I wasn't there for the initial implementation, but have dealt with it after it was used.

The data was immutable, so we didn't have that use-case. The tracker software we were using (one of the often used open source C++ ones) seemed to handle a couple hundred torrents just fine, but couldn't handle tens of thousands. Even if only a few were active. I'm not sure if it was excessive RAM or high CPU, but they built a wrapper tool to expire and re-add torrents as needed. I think technically it was limiting the number of seeds (from the central server) for different torrents.

There was also a lot of time/overhead in initiating a new download. This was exacerbated by the kludge mentioned above. Client would add the torrent, you would trigger a re-seed, then the client would wait awhile before checking again and finding the seed. Often this dance took much longer than the download itself.

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#46

Post by wehriam »

viksit wrote: post #26

One of the biggest challenges with IPFS in my mind is the lack of a story around how to delete content. There may be a variety of reasons to delete things, - Old packages that you simply don't want to version (think npm or pip) - Content that is pirated or proprietary or offensive that needs to be removed from the system But in its current avatar, there isn't an easy way for you to delete data from other people's IPF…

> Old packages that you simply don’t want to version

It’s important to think of IPFS as a way to share using content hashes - essentially file fingerprints - as URLs. Every bit of information added is inherently and permanently versioned.

This is a tremendous asset in many ways, for example de-duplication is free. But once a file has been added and copied to another host, any person with the fingerprint can find it again.

While IPFS systematically exacerbates the meaningful problems around deletion that you describe, they are not unique. Once information is put out in the world, it’s hard to hide it.

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#47

Post by heyitsguay »

fiatjaf wrote: post #42
fwip wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that so many P2P advocates - or at least the ones using the stuff built with P2P tech - are very loud alt-right types. I popped on notabug.io just now, and the chat is full of swastikas, racial slurs, and the most up-voted posts are primarily anti-gay misinformation. I see you wrote GUN, which I'm sure was no small feat, and it looks like an impressive piece of technology. How do you feel about your tech…

I just clicked on notabug and didn't see any swastikas or racial slurs. Are you lying?

The sexual misinformation is on the front page. The racial slurs and swastikas are in the chat. Great look for a site.

I wonder what's changed for early adopters of new tech compared with the original internet in the early 90's? Early adoption was still demographically skewed towards certain groups, but i don't recall this brand of right-wing thought being so prominent.

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#48

Post by Ericson2314 »

If you want to do package managers, your #1 priority should be Nix. Don't do something more popular where you help less, go with the thing that you can really provide the killer missing feature.

Nix + IPFS has been tried before, but what was missing is the Nix-side hierarchical content addressing of large data (not just plans). With the "intensional store" proposal, this should finally happen. Please push it along.

Data shouldn't be hashed like Nix's NARs, or IPFS's UnixFS for maximum interopt. Instead please go with git's model for all it's problems.

Thanks, hope someone can take me up on this because I'm up to my neck with other open source stuff already.

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#49

Post by pertsix »

viksit wrote: post #26

One of the biggest challenges with IPFS in my mind is the lack of a story around how to delete content. There may be a variety of reasons to delete things, - Old packages that you simply don't want to version (think npm or pip) - Content that is pirated or proprietary or offensive that needs to be removed from the system But in its current avatar, there isn't an easy way for you to delete data from other people's IPF…

why not encrypt it? that way it's junk data to anyone that can't decrypt it

Re: IPFS Project Roadmap

#50

Post by fiatjaf »

fwip wrote: post #43
fiatjaf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just clicked on notabug and didn't see any swastikas or racial slurs. Are you lying?

You think somebody would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? Warning: image contains racial slurs and swastikas: https://i.imgur.com/0kdxzVR.png A little later in the chat, the developer chimes in and talks about some stuff. Then some people angrily accost them for censoring things. If the Nazis and the racists aren't censored, I don't want to think about the odious content that is. Edit: Here's a thread…

Well, to me these seem like some adolescents trying to be funny and go against the mainstream. They post swastikas and call racial slurs because they know they shouldn't be doing that. They aren't really nazis, right? They don't even know what a nazi is.

You can call this "decentralized reddit" a bad place, as it really is, but you can't say it's because it's "full of right-wing people". These adolescents are not "right-wing people".

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