Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone • Hacker News Board

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#11

Post by tibiahurried » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

johnzim wrote: post #7

The Eurozone was never intended to do the damage it has done to PIGS economies but it has. What is worse, is that it has unquestionably been of benefit to Germany, which has one of the strongest hands in shaping the future of the EU. If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy t…

Can people stop using the acronym PIGS ? That's so annoying!

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#12

Post by bjelkeman-again » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

johnzim wrote: post #7

The Eurozone was never intended to do the damage it has done to PIGS economies but it has. What is worse, is that it has unquestionably been of benefit to Germany, which has one of the strongest hands in shaping the future of the EU. If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy t…

I am not sure the Euro in itself was the problem, but countries where included before they where ready and not enough mechanisms across the union to help those regions/countries that where struggling. But,hey, I am but an armchair economist.

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#13

Post by mhh__ » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

debatem1 wrote: post #9

I wish we had a political version of Mr. Rogers. We need better role models for how to talk about politics in ways that are measured, reasonable, and respectful.

The difficulty is that the two "basic" schools of politics/economics, Capitalism and Socialism are so diametrically opposed in terms of assumptions and methods that objectivity itself becomes subjective. Socalists tend to look at the world differently to capitalists.

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#14

Post by k__ » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

johnzim wrote: post #7

The Eurozone was never intended to do the damage it has done to PIGS economies but it has. What is worse, is that it has unquestionably been of benefit to Germany, which has one of the strongest hands in shaping the future of the EU. If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy t…

Wasn't the problem of countries like Greece and Italy corruption?

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#15

Post by debacle » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

johnzim wrote: post #7

The Eurozone was never intended to do the damage it has done to PIGS economies but it has. What is worse, is that it has unquestionably been of benefit to Germany, which has one of the strongest hands in shaping the future of the EU. If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy t…

> Left to float independently, the Deutschmark would not be as low as the Euro is today and the Lira would never be as high.

But wasn't that the whole point?

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#16

Post by _cerv » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

johnzim wrote: post #7

The Eurozone was never intended to do the damage it has done to PIGS economies but it has. What is worse, is that it has unquestionably been of benefit to Germany, which has one of the strongest hands in shaping the future of the EU. If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy t…

I always liked the idea of a two tier Euro, like 1:3, and I feel like that could have helped Southern Europe and nudged their fiscal policies closer inline with the ECB.

They also could have just pulled the bandaid off of Greece in 08, booted them from the union, took a loss on the debt, threw aid, and laid it out as an example for Spain and Italy to get their shit in order.

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#17

Post by napolux » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

Italian here. AMA :-)

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#18

Post by _cerv » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #10

lenticular wrote: post #2

This is a great article. The EU has done tremendous damage through its obsession with austerity.

Italy’s inability to sort out their bureaucracy really doesn’t help. (Ever tried to sell/buy a house in Italy, compared to, say Sweden? It is absurd.) Not that it is their only problem. But when rational people vote for Berlouisconi as prime minister, then you know you have a problem at multiple levels, imho.

This. The problem wasn’t too much austerity, it was that the pendulum seemed to always swing to extremes. Banking policy was always painted as a binary choice of excessive welfare financing or heartless spending cuts.

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#19

Post by alanpetrel » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

lenticular wrote: post #2

This is a great article. The EU has done tremendous damage through its obsession with austerity.

Were austerity instructions handed down by the EU or did the individual member states decide to implement it themselves?

Re: Italy’s austerity-fueled crisis is a warning to the Eurozone

#20

Post by Consultant32452 » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

johnzim wrote: post #7

The Eurozone was never intended to do the damage it has done to PIGS economies but it has. What is worse, is that it has unquestionably been of benefit to Germany, which has one of the strongest hands in shaping the future of the EU. If a macroeconomist had sat down to devise a currency that suffocated Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain - export driven economies (remember that tourism is an export as you have to buy t…

In my opinion the long term goal is to transition the EU (over the course of multiple human generations) into a single nation, similar to the way the United States operates. In that case, the conditions you described are an expected part of the process. In the US the states and local municipalities have different economic situations, different taxes, etc. And if our states broke off into 50 currencies, some would benefit while others would crumble.