Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing' • Hacker News Board

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#21

Post by forkLding » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:24 PM UTC

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #12

Can someone explain to me how it is a blessing to work 996. He literally says "If you don't work 996 when you are young, when can you ever work 996". This makes no sense at all. Why would anyone ever want to work 996. Lets burn our youth on this BS for what future promise Mr.Ma.

Its because Jack Ma still sees his company as it was in the startup days where the objective was out-competing anybody (even Western tech companies) through creativity, brutal price-cutting and sheer mental and time overload. These are qualities he attributes to people in their youth who can burn the midnight oil for their dream. It is also built on top of East Asian exploitative/"hard-work brings success" work culture.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#22

Post by edmundsauto » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

I'm guessing he doesn't accept the research on information workers and hours, nor read Deep Work. These kinds of hours will lead to lower overall production and increased errors, if there's any cognition behind what is happening.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#23

Post by Daishiman » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #16

zeroc8 wrote: post #10

Do not listen to this P.O.S. The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Our chinese coworkers hate 996 as much as anybody, but social pressure keeps them in the rat race. This is totally crazy, sick and stupid.

> The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Paradise for the unproductive and unambitious, yes. That's why Europe is no longer innovative and competitive and China is doing much better.

I don't see the Chinese having vacations, great houses, breathing good air and eating quality food. Woe unto them.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#24

Post by lazyjones » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #23

lazyjones wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Paradise for the unproductive and unambitious, yes. That's why Europe is no longer innovative and competitive and China is doing much better.

I don't see the Chinese having vacations, great houses, breathing good air and eating quality food. Woe unto them.

Then you are blind or ignorant. Visit any European capital these days to find large flocks of Chinese tourists enjoying their expensive vacations, shopping tours and gadgets.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#25

Post by alanpetrel » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

Sounds exactly like Japan, when will these people learn that tired workers are unproductive and error prone workers?

One thing that really guts me about Brexit is that if the Tories get their way then 996 will become the norm here too.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#26

Post by alanpetrel » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #16

zeroc8 wrote: post #10

Do not listen to this P.O.S. The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Our chinese coworkers hate 996 as much as anybody, but social pressure keeps them in the rat race. This is totally crazy, sick and stupid.

> The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Paradise for the unproductive and unambitious, yes. That's why Europe is no longer innovative and competitive and China is doing much better.

Really? GDP says otherwise.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#27

Post by gridlockd » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:55 PM UTC

kevin_b_er wrote: post #5

I expect a billionare to say he needs his workers to have no free time and do nothing but work. Why? It makes him more money. It does not forward the aspirations of the workers, it just becomes a race to the bottom that the workers lose on. This is good for the already rich, because it makes them richer. This "996" encouragement from the rich is just an expression of their desire for others to help make them richer a…

> I expect a billionare to say he needs his workers to have no free time and do nothing but work.

These days you'd actually except billionaires to go on a virtue signaling tour on how they're paying too little taxes and how capitalism failed the little man, e.g. like Warren Buffer or Ray Dalio.

> Why? It makes him more money.

It actually doesn't, good old capitalist Henry Ford already knew that 40 hours are about the optimum in terms of worker productivity. Everything else is a waste of time (and therefore money).

> This "996" encouragement from the rich is just an expression of their desire for others to help make them richer and others poorer.

Jack Ma came from nothing and worked very hard to get where he is. He really believes in hard work paying off - what else is he supposed to believe?

Also, in a country with a billion people clamoring for a good job, worker competition is cut-throat. It has nothing to do with "rich people" trying to squeeze the workers like lemons. The lemons are squeezing themselves.

> In short: This is the avarice of Ma speaking, and nothing else.

Nope, that's just the "evil rich guy" narrative that your psyche desperately wants to see confirmed.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#28

Post by alanpetrel » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #24

Daishiman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the Chinese having vacations, great houses, breathing good air and eating quality food. Woe unto them.

Then you are blind or ignorant. Visit any European capital these days to find large flocks of Chinese tourists enjoying their expensive vacations, shopping tours and gadgets.

Not to mention throwing litter and spitting on the street, vile people.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#29

Post by gridlockd » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

alanpetrel wrote: post #26

lazyjones wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Paradise for the unproductive and unambitious, yes. That's why Europe is no longer innovative and competitive and China is doing much better.

Really? GDP says otherwise.

GDP is a really bad measure, especially when you're financing it through QE and zero-interest monetary policy. We should at least have sovereign-debt-adjusted domestic product.

Re: Alibaba founder defends overtime work culture as 'huge blessing'

#30

Post by gaze » Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #16

zeroc8 wrote: post #10

Do not listen to this P.O.S. The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Our chinese coworkers hate 996 as much as anybody, but social pressure keeps them in the rat race. This is totally crazy, sick and stupid.

> The more I learn about the world, the more I'm convinced I'm living in paradise (Europe). Paradise for the unproductive and unambitious, yes. That's why Europe is no longer innovative and competitive and China is doing much better.

"doing much better" in what sense? Who wants to live as a slave? Shouldn't the goal a country be maximal quality of life?