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Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

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Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#121
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of employee-owned companies to join if that's your opinion. Trying to shoehorn that ownership into companies that often got to where they are by not being employee-owned seems really entitled.

There was a time when nobility was complaining about peasants who wanted to have a say in how the country is run.

There's a little bit of a difference between the social structure of governance in a place you have to live and an opt-in corporate structure for people who can choose where they want to work.

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#122
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, companies that oppose employee unions should hire and employ only shareholders, with a number of shares commensurate with the importance of their work roles. That door swings both ways. Unions are not an exclusively socialist construct. I support unions as an anarchist, because I recognize that it is both useful for corporations with concentrated capital to exist and necessary to counterbalance their powe…

> F U, I got mine I don't have mine, but I hope to some day. Under socialism, that won't happen. Here's a great objection: I want to be rich some day. Very rich. I suspect this is the case with many of us. Under socialism, that can't happen. And so, I will never support it. Your whole idea is that socialism will clear out the elites in power. It won't. You'll end up with a bastardized version that oppresses everyone…

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - Ronald Wright

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#123
post #16

Unpopular opinion: As a recent graduate (last 5 years), I can't agree with most works desire to unionize for one reason: demand for your skills. When I was looking for my second tech job, I turned on that switch in my LinkedIn that lets recruiters contact me. I was immediately inundated with 10-20 messages a day from recruiters asking if I could speak with them about . For me this was the most insane luxury in the wo…

The main reasons I would like to see a tech unions and things I would want out of it:

1. assessment training and rank. my sister is in a union and has been train and qualified for specific kinds of work. she does this work for many clients and the chance that they are getting the skills they need and she has those skills are very high. she can also call in others from the union if needed and the union handles negotiations of changed whatever.

2. unions handles her seniority. she can work for several different companies a year, but time off and other benefits come from time in union not those companies.

There is a lot of other things about her union I do not like, but my biggest problems in tech are finding or developing the right talent (including my own) and constant loss of seniority (pto, retirement, and other benefits). I lost a lot of both early in my career because I didn't negotiate well.

If a union existed that helped protect my interests, develop my talents, and match my skills with work I would join it. If they were good at training/vetting their members (apprentice, journeyman, whatever) in whatever skill set they learned that would benefit both employee and employer. Might help with imposter syndrome. Might help both sides with many issues if done right.

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#124
post #8

Socialism aside, the unionization of tech workers is extremely important. Failing this, they will be exploited at every damn job. Unions exist in local governments, so why not at private firms too. It's time to organize. A lot of CEOs and CTOs will hate this idea, of course, and will do anything to make you believe otherwise.

Their undoing contract will mean less if it doesn’t have ability to veto any attempt to farm out work to cheaper or less regulated labor markets.

Why should they have such ability? If someone else is ready, willing, and able to do the same job for an overall more attractive package to the company, I believe the work should go there, whether or not it's the work that I used to do or wished I would do next year.

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#125
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their undoing contract will mean less if it doesn’t have ability to veto any attempt to farm out work to cheaper or less regulated labor markets.

Why should they have such ability? If someone else is ready, willing, and able to do the same job for an overall more attractive package to the company, I believe the work should go there, whether or not it's the work that I used to do or wished I would do next year.

Well because it’s one of the main drivers of layoffs—which is part of job security which is one of the main factors in wanting to unionize in the first place.

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#126
post #2

This trend bothers me. Employees are not shareholders, or if they are, they ought to do this in their capacity as shareholders. If they want to govern the company, they ought to buy in or move to management. Or, they can always move companies. This is always an option. Also, socialism is an awful idea. I can't believe people actually support it. I have a massive moral objection to its core tenets: what right have you…

[deleted]

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#127
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The constitution has been enforced via tax, yes, but I would argue that income tax is (or was and ought to be) unconstitutional (and wrong) and amendment XVI was an overt power grab. Sales tax, excise tax, sin tax, road toll, pick some other way. The goal is not tax efficiency but upholding the most basic freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights and performing the very few duties specifically outlined in the Constit…

> Point me to the clause in the Constitution where it says anyone has a right to healthcare or that the federal government is allowed to dispense it. The latter, and it's the militia clause read together with the elastic clause. Arguably, depending on whether one views health status identification and health maintenance as more essential to training or organization of the universal militia, it may require the states…

The latter what? What does the militia clause have to do with it, outside of providing healthcare to the military? The necessary and proper execution of which federal power? The federal government no longer calls up a militia, so you can make no pretense of this being anything but an unconstitutional reach. Also, militiae are not composed of all the populace, therefore you could at most justify a certain subgroup. Arguably the most vulnerable groups are the least covered by this. Also, the necessary and proper clause is a bs justification in most senses of its use, possibly tied with the commerce clause for most-abused.

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#128
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> F U, I got mine I don't have mine, but I hope to some day. Under socialism, that won't happen. Here's a great objection: I want to be rich some day. Very rich. I suspect this is the case with many of us. Under socialism, that can't happen. And so, I will never support it. Your whole idea is that socialism will clear out the elites in power. It won't. You'll end up with a bastardized version that oppresses everyone…

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - Ronald Wright

Somewhat paraphrased / misquoted John Steinbeck, actually:

http://hellyesjohnsteinbeck.tumblr.com/post/23486952183/comm...

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Steinbeck

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#129
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> F U, I got mine I don't have mine, but I hope to some day. Under socialism, that won't happen. Here's a great objection: I want to be rich some day. Very rich. I suspect this is the case with many of us. Under socialism, that can't happen. And so, I will never support it. Your whole idea is that socialism will clear out the elites in power. It won't. You'll end up with a bastardized version that oppresses everyone…

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - Ronald Wright

Yes, and I judge this to be a good thing.

Re: Tech workers are organizing and demanding democracy in the workplace

#130
post #11

I've noticed this trend here on HN beyond workers organizing for their own benefit. The idea of regulating the internet, for almost any reason was abhorrent to the tech community a decade ago. Now, most people seem to think the likes of Uber and AirBnB need to be regulated. A majority of comments here about GDPR seem to support it, and I regularly see calls for more regulation of the sort. I'm not sure if the same gr…

There are numerous notable caes of changed views. Kara Swisher, Roger McNamee, BlackBerry cofounder Jim Balsillie, Tim Wu, Tristan Harris, the entire Wired editorial slant.

Wind's done shifted.

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