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Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

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141–150 of 227 posts

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#142
post #106

I'll play devils advocate. I like Slack, and having a group communication tool has only increased my productivity. How? - Having a place to easily search for issues others have had in the past. Sure, you can search emails or ask the same questions, but it's nice to search and find answers from other peoples conversations. - Integration for production alerting, customer feedback, and deployment pipelines. Instead of m…

I would add to this, Slack can be a fantastic tool or it can be the bane of your workday, it all comes down to how your company/team use Slack. On my team almost everything goes into the main team chat; however, every message is tagged with the person it's aimed at and any team-wide communication is tagged @here. Any sub-conversation about that top-level message happens in the message thread. With this method, you ar…

This sounds like it would be a better workflow for a threaded newsgroup style application.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#143
Slack only works for companies where the nature of their employees' work actually requires team communication that will benefit the organizations.

Like everything in life, it's always a trade off. You may gain scores for team work but will sacrifice individual creativity. Deep creative tasks always require a full strength of focus and that state is only attainable once we allow our mind some time to completely "dial in". You simply cannot switch from 0 to 100 and be in the zone within the span of just a few minutes.

When you are using Slack or any social media communication platforms, your brain must allocate cognitive resource to manage your ego because you do care about what other people think of your opinions. Since the pool of our cognitive resource is limited, we will have less remaining that can be dedicated to other real creative tasks.

On top of that, you now have a distraction source where you constantly have to switch attention to. This may condition your brain over time and cause it to lose the ability to "dial in".

Some companies were eager to force employees into using these tools while it didn't really provide any real tangible benefits, and may in fact even be destructive. Within a company only some departments should use it but some definitely shouldn't. It's the same reason why open office concept may work for certain organizations but not for all.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, the whole "checking in on a channel" thing is exactly the problem. It creates a nonsense or a "missing out" feeling for the team. It is too synchronous.

So, I think the crux here, is that the below, in my opinion, is a purely perceived pressure. You shoulden't feel pressured to read everything in Slack. > Reduced pressure to read everything. Let’s face it, it’s not practical or necessary to keep up with every conversation. The aggregated timeline in Level lets you subscribe to channels and sip from the firehose of conversations without pressuring you to “catch up” on…

The fear of missing something is real. I have seen decisions taken in Slack by two or three of the four or five people who should have been involved. I'm not saying this is caused by Slack -- the problem is absolutely with the people who thought it was okay to act on such a decision. But I do think it's facilitated; the people involved seem to subconsciously think that because they're discussing in a public channel where the other people are "present" -- even though they're not active -- that everyone's informed. Whereas if they'd just had a hallway face-to-face, someone would have said, "Hey, we really need to check with Laura and Ed about this too".

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#145
It is a truth universally acknowledged among managerial types, that given enough collaboration, all work becomes shallow. To that end, the business will increase the number of collaborative tools and the expectation of their use, because deep work presents a problem. It is a risk incurred by the business. Creative effort by an individual is not auditable, there's no paper trail. No actionable data -- data that would allow the business to verify each step of the process and estimate time and cost to completion -- is produced other than the creative output itself. The only person qualified to assess whether deep creative work by an individual is on track, on time, and under budget is the individual themself and they cannot be trusted! "Beware the guy in a room."

So the deep parts of the work are now the responsibility of the team, and in order to do that, the team needs to stay in constant communication. Yes, it's slower and less efficient, but the business values reliability and accountability at the expense of some efficiency.

This is why you don't get an office or even a desk -- you get about one linear meter of bench on which to set up your MacBook. This is why availability on Slack is paramount. This is why you're responsible for attending standup, planning, retro, grooming, Three Amigos, and whatever parking-lot meetings your PM has called throughout the week in addition to all the work you've committed to this sprint. This is why "sprints" in the first place.

If you work for corporate, odds are you've signed up to join a hivemind, with all that entails.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#146
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I have an anecdote in which I was brought in by a great niche technical contracting firm, as a developer who was also supposed to repair a client relationship, after a previous developer quit. I learned that the problem on client site was not quite what was expected (they already knew the client's manager didn't want contractors). It turned out that a significant part the problem on the ground was simply that th…

> that the contracting company's on-site manager was bombarding the contractors with instant messages they were required to monitor Pardon the naivete, but couldn't he just stop doing that?

It turned out people hated that, but it was an unusually amiable group of experts who maybe were reluctant to speak candidly with this person (and the reporting lines weren't clear, in a firm of technical experts). Anyway, I only mentioned this anecdote because I was reminded of it, as a concrete example of disruptive notifications you had to be plugged into, for whatever reason.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#147
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use a Wiki for everything, no. However, that is unlikely. You'll have to search more than one place anyway. Making Slack your primary store of institutional knowledge is unwise. Chats are full of garbage, random discussions, old / bad decisions, etc.

And there's no guarantee that slack will exist forever.

No guarantee that Atlassian Wikis will last forever either, but I'm certain that's the wiki 90% will be thinking of when "use a wiki" is suggested.

Backing up your knowledge store is a very separate task from your day-to-day use of it. It's just as possible to back-up your company's slack messages as it is to back-up the company's wiki.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#148
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add to this, Slack can be a fantastic tool or it can be the bane of your workday, it all comes down to how your company/team use Slack. On my team almost everything goes into the main team chat; however, every message is tagged with the person it's aimed at and any team-wide communication is tagged @here. Any sub-conversation about that top-level message happens in the message thread. With this method, you ar…

I mute at here in all channels. It should be banned.

It's easily the most misused feature of Slack.

Using @here in a channel is the equivalent of standing on your desk and shouting at everyone around you. So what happens is, like you, everyone starts muting it.

And then you just have people shouting into the void.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#149
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because HN is a stereotypical echo chamber where the correct opinion right now that fits the stereotype is to hate Slack.

That added nothing to the conversation. HN may have a uniformity of opinion, because a large fraction of effective people in Software don't like something. That would be worth talking about. Ad Hominem attacks are pointless.

While his/her comment may have been narrowly directed and could even be bordering trolling/flame-baiting, it made me think about how the structure of discussion groups in general could encourage echo chambers. His/her comment is a case-in-point as it's being downvoted.

I tend to believe discussion groups with comment voting systems (e.g., Reddit, Digg years ago) tend to further or more quickly close communication feedback loops that help lead to echo chambers: "what we like, what don't we like." People who want to actively engage will be more quickly discouraged if their perspectives differ and are quickly shunned, even if they're potentially valid. Those who remain will be conditioned with positive reinforcement when they repeat the status quo ("rewarded" with up-votes from peers).

Comment voting systems tend to suppress perspectives that challenge the status quo in general (they can also promote challenges, though anecdotally, I observe this far less). Even without voting systems though, peer pressure in discussions shapes the discussions in a feedback loop that, in my opinion, leads to echo chambers of perspectives.

Obviously the tradeoff is: what's the alternative? True garbage is posted that should be removed (spam, direct personal attacks, etc.). Moderator and editor systems shape discussions to their bias vs. a more distributed voting approach biases towards the status quo. Another option is to allow any perspective a perpetual voice (false negative spam and uncivil discussion emerges) which requires filtering/ignoring on a per participant/client basis (not good at promoting return visitors who want quality discussions), but this does allow exposure to new and differing perspectives.

I'm not sure what the best solution is. As you pointed out, and I agree entirely with you, his/her comment certainly could have been presented better and didn't need to attack HN directly. At the very least, for me, it illustrates frustration as a symptom of a potentially systematic problem.

Sometimes, I do wonder if "trolling" and "flamebaiting" often regarded as negative behaviors, are in reality healthy for discussion groups. They encourage a never ending revaluation (QA/QC, CD even) of ideologies adopted by the status quo and foster a competitive behavior of ideas using emotion for drive and momentum. I've read some of the best in-depth and even enlightening discussions spun out from such comments, once you get past initially emotionally fueled personal attacks. To be fair, I've also observed some of the most worthless volleyball of personal attacks. I suggest those disagreements and the emotional fuel help us push away complacency and strive for improvement instead of avoiding challenges. Without any emotion, few have desire to bpther exploring some ideas. Emotion isn't required to have a progressive discussion, but it seems to me to help light fires and engage more ideas, especially if done tastefully.

Re: Slack Is Not Where 'Deep Work' Happens

#150

Slack only works for companies where the nature of their employees' work actually requires team communication that will benefit the organizations. Like everything in life, it's always a trade off. You may gain scores for team work but will sacrifice individual creativity. Deep creative tasks always require a full strength of focus and that state is only attainable once we allow our mind some time to completely "dial…

I think the Slack default of "Notify me on every new message" is the absolute worst thing. Change it to "Notify me on direct messages and mentions only". I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a reasonable default, but I've seen it with other chat applications too -- Hipchat was the same, IIRC.

I don't monitor Slack (though everything I say here applies to any 'chat' app). It can interrupt me, but only when people @-mention me, and then at least there's a reason. Sometimes I even ignore those for a while until I'm able to shift focus, but that takes some discipline. If you don't have the discipline, close Slack (or set to DND) for a few hours while you work on something.

What's the alternative to Slack -- Email? That's a million times worse, in every way. It's a necessary email when talking externally, but would ban it in a heartbeat for internal comms, if I had my way. In my view, every every email breaks down into three categories that are better served by another means of communication:

* A task that needs to be completed == A ticket

* Information to be shared to a group of people == Internal CMS posting (eg, wiki)

* A discussion about something (which will usually lead to one of the above) == A conversation in Slack (asynchronous, equivalent to email) or a meeting (synchronous, if decision needs to be made quickly, and/or everyone is discussing in real-time anyway)

The only thing e-mail is actually useful for is notifications from systems you don't monitor/use frequently and that can't notify via Slack, and communicating with people externally.

Likely the people interrupted by Slack messages (assuming they don't use the brain-dead default of 'notify on all messages') are also currently interrupted by every e-mail or phone call that comes in, so I'm not really sure you can blame a lack of focus on Slack.

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