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Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

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Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#61

Post by chris_mc »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #51
evgen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is protected by constitutional rights in the country Mozilla’s nexus exists in. Good thing it is not the government telling Mozilla to remove the plugin then, otherwise there might be an actual problem here. What makes free speech useless is pretending that someone else has a responsibility to promote your message or provide you with access to a printing press. Neither are true. This does not even appear to b…

Militant leftists wanting to outlaw certain speech are no different then the alt right. It’s not as if more reason is necessary for regulating tech. You want to be the new commons, you get the responsibility of the commons along with it. Can’t have it both ways. Note we heavily regulate private companies in many US industries when we deem it necessary.

>Militant leftists wanting to outlaw certain speech

Uhh, Mozilla didn't outlaw anything. Do you want to force Mozilla to put that extension on their site against their free speech rights? The only thing guaranteed by the first amendment is the federal government cannot prevent you from saying what you want. It says nothing about preventing you from using a 3rd party platform. Feel free to get a literal soapbox and preach your truth wherever you want in the real world, no one is stopping you.

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#62

Post by syshum »

chris_mc wrote: post #61
toomuchtodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Militant leftists wanting to outlaw certain speech are no different then the alt right. It’s not as if more reason is necessary for regulating tech. You want to be the new commons, you get the responsibility of the commons along with it. Can’t have it both ways. Note we heavily regulate private companies in many US industries when we deem it necessary.

>Militant leftists wanting to outlaw certain speech Uhh, Mozilla didn't outlaw anything. Do you want to force Mozilla to put that extension on their site against their free speech rights? The only thing guaranteed by the first amendment is the federal government cannot prevent you from saying what you want. It says nothing about preventing you from using a 3rd party platform. Feel free to get a literal soapbox and pr…

It would not be against Mozilla "free speech" rights, it would be against their free association rights.

I want to hold Mozilla up to their public advertisements, and commitments they made to the public at large, these are a contract if you will to the public. Both because of their Tax Exempt status, and a truth in advertising issue.

If mozilla wants to exercise their right to free association as censorship platform, then they need to give up their Tax Exempt status, as well as cease all public advertisement around "Our mission: Keep the internet open and accessible to all.", Clearly this is only true to people that share the ideological worldview as Mozilla. AS such this is a false statement.

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#63

Post by syshum »

cheez wrote: post #26
toomuchtodo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is protected by constitutional rights in the country Mozilla’s nexus exists in. It’s not necessary for a bloated non profit to remove access to an extension for political reasons (versus technical deficiencies). Free speech is useless if you’re not willing to defend that which you find most disagreeable.

Which I would imagine is a problem if Mozilla receives federal funding.

In a way they do... They are tax exempt which means there is a case to be made as being Tax Exempt comes with Strings

For example we do not allow Churches to comment on politics they have to remain neutral or they lose their tax exemption

The same should apply to Mozilla. They need to be politically neutral, up holding Legal Speech, or they need to shutdown the Mozilla Foundation and become a for profit organization

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#64

Post by forgottenpass »

jjulius wrote: post #34
freshm087 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Dissenter was created by Gab, a far/alt-right online platform. So what? I'm not trolling, I'm trying to understand. It's doesn't look like anybody was forced to use the extension, you don't like it - don't use it. If it's ok to use clear-cut ideological censorship for plugins/extensions, then it's ok to block websites. Personally, I find it hard to accept.

Here's what I posted in another response in this thread just now: >Mozilla themselves has said that they didn't remove it for political reasons [or "ideological censorship" as you put it], rather it was the language and vitriol being used on the platform. As an example, it's one thing to use something like Dissenter to calmly and rationally discuss why you might think a nation should close its borders to all immigran…

>>Mozilla themselves has said that they didn't remove it for political reasons [or "ideological censorship" as you put it], rather it was the language and vitriol being used on the platform.

Hegemony means never having to admit you have an agenda.

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#65

Post by krapp »

forgottenpass wrote: post #64
jjulius wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I posted in another response in this thread just now: >Mozilla themselves has said that they didn't remove it for political reasons [or "ideological censorship" as you put it], rather it was the language and vitriol being used on the platform. As an example, it's one thing to use something like Dissenter to calmly and rationally discuss why you might think a nation should close its borders to all immigran…

>>Mozilla themselves has said that they didn't remove it for political reasons [or "ideological censorship" as you put it], rather it was the language and vitriol being used on the platform. Hegemony means never having to admit you have an agenda.

>Hegemony means never having to admit you have an agenda.

...and we're to conclude that, because Mozilla has "hegemony", and are denying a political agenda, they must actually have a political agenda they're not admitting to?

I mean, hegemony could just as well mean never having to deny you have an agenda, because what can anyone do? The US certainly doesn't hide its agenda regarding its military or nuclear hegemony.

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#66

Post by toomuchtodo »

syshum wrote: post #63
cheez wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I would imagine is a problem if Mozilla receives federal funding.

In a way they do... They are tax exempt which means there is a case to be made as being Tax Exempt comes with Strings For example we do not allow Churches to comment on politics they have to remain neutral or they lose their tax exemption The same should apply to Mozilla. They need to be politically neutral, up holding Legal Speech, or they need to shutdown the Mozilla Foundation and become a for profit organization

This is an avenue I had not considering exploring. I will have to research constraints on non profits and when they can be reported to the IRS for possibly violating those constraints and an evaluation can occur to consider revoking their 503c status.

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#67

Post by krapp »

syshum wrote: post #62
chris_mc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Militant leftists wanting to outlaw certain speech Uhh, Mozilla didn't outlaw anything. Do you want to force Mozilla to put that extension on their site against their free speech rights? The only thing guaranteed by the first amendment is the federal government cannot prevent you from saying what you want. It says nothing about preventing you from using a 3rd party platform. Feel free to get a literal soapbox and pr…

It would not be against Mozilla "free speech" rights, it would be against their free association rights. I want to hold Mozilla up to their public advertisements, and commitments they made to the public at large, these are a contract if you will to the public. Both because of their Tax Exempt status, and a truth in advertising issue. If mozilla wants to exercise their right to free association as censorship platform,…

There is no such thing as a "contract if you will to the public" nor do any "commitments" that Mozilla has made to the "public at large" (whatever those are supposed to be) constitute a contract in any legally binding sense.

>If mozilla wants to exercise their right to free association as censorship platform, then they need to give up their Tax Exempt status, as well as cease all public advertisement around "Our mission: Keep the internet open and accessible to all."

Firefox extensions are not the internet.

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#69

Post by yoasif_ »

cybersnowflake wrote: post #44
jjulius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I posted elsewhere in this thread - twice now - and is what so many people seem to be missing. It's not the subjects they're discussing, it's likely the manner in which their users are discussing them. >Mozilla themselves has said that they didn't remove it for political reasons [or "ideological censorship" as you put it], rather it was the language and vitriol being used on the platform. As an example, i…

>Mozilla themselves has said that they didn't remove it for political reasons [or "ideological censorship" as you put it] So basically you're saying you'd be okay if there's one place you could speak freely and be heard (the internet) owned by one guy (the tech monopolies) and he could shut it down for everybody if one person said a bad word on it? Btw Dissenter does preemptively censors bad language, and they reache…

> Btw Dissenter does preemptively censors bad language

So wait, Dissenter doesn't support free speech?

Re: Firefox bans free speech commenting plugin Dissenter from its extensions gallery

#70

Post by yoasif_ »

mymindstorm wrote: post #56
0815test wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dissenters is a commercial platform, Mozilla are simply under no obligation to promote it or give it a spotlight under addons.mozilla.org. Unless you can point to a similar addon from some alt-left site that they have approved, there's no reason to suspect that this was a political decision.

Firefox requires that extension files be signed by Mozilla if you want to install a .xpi file from a website. They don't have to be given a spotlight, but this effectively makes it impossible for anyone who doesn't know how to manually compile and install the extension to even use it.

Mozilla continues to offer Dissenter the ability to sign their add-on and distribute it themselves. Look at the takedown notice, where they recommend this approach.
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