Live data from Hacker News

Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

nytimes.com

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#22
post #18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine interstellar travel with some kind of Matrix-like hibernation. But all the problems with interplanetary are just a matter of stinginess. Low gravity? Make a 2001 style ring. Radiation? Make a big ass ship with enough isolation. Is that astronomically expensive? Of course. But avoid gravity well. Start building a Moon base with mining facilities, then move to Ceres, and son on. Current Mars fever is a distra…

> Current Mars fever is a distraction. Yes, but it's a distraction from doing absolutely nothing at all with humans in space. I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. But it's apparently not how we as a civilization operate. Instead we set lofty and slightly impractical goals. If we meet those goals, we usually take two steps back and wait for a few generations. But if…

>I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there.

Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story.

>Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental.

After decades of parenting and diet fads followed by a replication crisis, it's clear that nothing which filters down to the parents could be called anything close to known (much less absolutely).

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a couple of similar stories from people who spend a lot of time in VR and forget that the rules don't transfer back. One guy smacked his head into the fridge door trying to look inside it because he forgot that he would actually collide with the door.

I'm really not looking forwards to VR driving games, then.

I heavily played GTA: Vice City during the time I learned how to drive. After I got my driver's licence, I remember one instance where I clearly noticed how my brain drifted into GTA mode while I was driving through town. I had to actively remember myself that this is a real environment and that I cannot just drive over the street lamp post without anything happening. I talked to a classmate about this and he had had a similar experience, but with Mafia (which had a very realistic car handling, you could even activate an expert mode where you had to shift manually iirc).

I stopped playing GTA for a while after that.

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current Mars fever is a distraction. Yes, but it's a distraction from doing absolutely nothing at all with humans in space. I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. But it's apparently not how we as a civilization operate. Instead we set lofty and slightly impractical goals. If we meet those goals, we usually take two steps back and wait for a few generations. But if…

> I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story. > Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental. After decades of parenting and diet fads followed by a replication cris…

It seems a bit as if you're not reading my comment in the context it was intended for.

> Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story.

The post I was answering posited a Moon base first because it's a less ambitious test bed, and I think that is largely correct. I was not making the case for a self-sufficient Moon colony instead of colonizing Mars.

> it's clear that nothing which filters down to the parents could be called anything close to known (much less absolutely).

It is very hard to make that argument convincingly in the face of, say, honor killings. Yes, theoretically you could argue that parents who intentionally harm their child technically do not "know" any better. But if we are talking on that level, that is certainly not an argument in support of why giving birth to a baby on Mars is somehow worse.

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not looking forwards to VR driving games, then.

I heavily played GTA: Vice City during the time I learned how to drive. After I got my driver's licence, I remember one instance where I clearly noticed how my brain drifted into GTA mode while I was driving through town. I had to actively remember myself that this is a real environment and that I cannot just drive over the street lamp post without anything happening. I talked to a classmate about this and he had had…

This has been part of my concern with such things. I don't know that the alarmism about "violent videogames create young terrorist-wannabes" is correct, but it's hard (especially as games become increasingly photorealistic and physics become more and more accurate) to distinguish, I'm sure.

It's a little scary to think we might have a guy run someone else over, and plead insanity saying "I thought it was a videogame". This strikes me as another manifestation of the same problem we will have to deal with concerning things like Google Duplex: is it okay to have robots that can impersonate humans? Games that can impersonate the real world? There was a discussion the other day on how online dating apps are causing a large percentage of men to end up "involuntarily celibate"; some people proposed sex-bots as a solution. Can we really live with ourselves as people and as a society if these things come to pass?

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Current Mars fever is a distraction. Yes, but it's a distraction from doing absolutely nothing at all with humans in space. I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. But it's apparently not how we as a civilization operate. Instead we set lofty and slightly impractical goals. If we meet those goals, we usually take two steps back and wait for a few generations. But if…

> I agree in a saner world we'd have built a Moon base first, and then moved on from there. Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story. > Today, parents can and regularly do make decisions about their children's mental and physical health that are absolutely known to be detrimental. After decades of parenting and diet fads followed by a replication cris…

Mars is more livable than the moon because it has atmospheric CO2, (more) water, and a better mineral story.

The goal of a Moon base is not living there, it's building from a place near to Earth but outside the gravity well. Martian atmosphere and water are a pie in the sky. If we're unable to build a base in the Moon, how are we supposed to do it in Mars? If we can do it in the Moon, it would be incredibly useful for preparing a Mars base.

That's all pretty obvious and it was the plan half a century ago. The only reason Mars is getting so much attention is to captivate our imagination. But what's the real purpose of living in Mars? I can't see the reason. I do see why it would be useful to send humans to space in general.

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not looking forwards to VR driving games, then.

I heavily played GTA: Vice City during the time I learned how to drive. After I got my driver's licence, I remember one instance where I clearly noticed how my brain drifted into GTA mode while I was driving through town. I had to actively remember myself that this is a real environment and that I cannot just drive over the street lamp post without anything happening. I talked to a classmate about this and he had had…

I'm surprised you developed connections between the two - I've been playing computer games a longtime, and find the cognitive load and muscle memory of real world activities to be markedly different than something like GTA, but I only was playing Need for Speed 2 as I learned to drive, so maybe that didn't quite meet the realism requirements, not to say Vice City is some VR masterpiece, but it was credible in its day.

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#29
post #17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely love hearing stories from astronauts about how quickly they adapt to microgravity and how easy it is to forget when they come back. Things like stories of them suddenly letting go of stuff they are holding on earth and expecting it to float there, or reaching out to grab on to a wall to stop themselves while walking down a hallway.

I've heard a couple of similar stories from people who spend a lot of time in VR and forget that the rules don't transfer back. One guy smacked his head into the fridge door trying to look inside it because he forgot that he would actually collide with the door.

I used to play a lot of emulated games with save states, and afterward, I kept getting small bouts of depression every time I realized I couldn't save the world and perfect something crazy.

Re: Scott Kelly Spent a Year in Orbit. His Body Is Not Quite the Same

#30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not looking forwards to VR driving games, then.

I heavily played GTA: Vice City during the time I learned how to drive. After I got my driver's licence, I remember one instance where I clearly noticed how my brain drifted into GTA mode while I was driving through town. I had to actively remember myself that this is a real environment and that I cannot just drive over the street lamp post without anything happening. I talked to a classmate about this and he had had…

I crashed my car this way, but the game I was playing a lot was need for speed underground (I drove my exact car on the game). Was getting onto the freeway in Palo Alto, drifted right into the side of the onramp. As I was about to hit the wall my mind snapped out of it and I realized I can’t slide off the wall in real life, but it was also too late to stop.
Post reply on HN