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Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#131

Post by caf »

teraflop wrote: post #126
ProblemFactory wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current drone batteries are a much higher fire risk than a hydrogen blimp.

It's worth noting that hydrogen is orders of magnitude more energy-dense, by mass, than lithium-ion batteries. As a benchmark: the DJI Phantom weighs roughly 1kg, and its battery can store about 80kJ of electrical energy. I found a NASA study [1] which estimated that the energy released when a li-ion battery combusts is roughly 2x the usable energy capacity. So let's say that a battery fire would release 160kJ of ene…

9MJ is roughly 2kg of TNT.

I'm not so sure that kind of energy release would be entirely harmless.

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#132

Post by caf »

penagwin wrote: post #116
ProblemFactory wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current drone batteries are a much higher fire risk than a hydrogen blimp.

Plus assuming the drone is above the tree line and not next to a tall structure, the actual "fireball" should move fairly skyward and not pose much of a fire threat? I'd be more concerned about the falling drone/battery.

It's not only direct contact with the fireball you have to worry about, a large amount of the energy in the explosion would be coupled into a pressure wave and infrared radiation.

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#133

Post by caf »

bamboozled wrote: post #52

It's difficult to imagine that this is ok from a privacy standpoint. I mean yes, the claim is that there is a "low-resolution fitted for debugging purposes", but why would Google stop there? There are now cameras flying around Canberra and there is seemingly not a single way for a civilian to differentiate between a Google delivery done or a fake drone used for spying. There will be no way for people to opt-out of th…

I dunnno, these drones are pretty distinctive-looking.

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#134

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

spectramax wrote: post #55

No one talks about the noise. Every time I read about drone delivery, this major aspect is omitted from the discussion but I believe it would be a nuisance to have drones droning around all the time making a huge amount of noise. Airplanes make a lot of noise and it is still a hot topic in neighborhoods adjacent to airports. Little hobby drones make some noise but when you’ve got a drone lifting 5kg of weight, it’s g…

I think fixed-wing drones make less noise than the Quadcopter ones.

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#135

Post by caf »

lm28469 wrote: post #53

What's the use case besides delivering to remote areas ? I can get Zipline's mission [0], but personal deliveries ... ? A UPS truck with hundreds of packages surely is more efficient than an army of drones in urban areas. https://x.company/projects/wing/ > "Wing is developing a new method of transporting goods that’s faster, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly" What's the advantage compared to an electric van…

One of the initial services on this is takeaway burritos, so I think it's more intended to compete with Uber Eats than UPS.

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#136

Post by anitil »

oska wrote: post #119
michaelt wrote: post #11

There's a better video of the drones here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0 Google's delivery drones combine a multirotor design with fixed-wings. It seems like an eminently sensible design to me; fixed-wing operation will be quieter and more power-efficient, allowing longer travel distances (unlike the early Amazon Prime Air videos [1]), while hover capability avoids the need to parachute the load (unlike…

> There's a better video of the drones here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0 Mount Tennent in the centre background at 0:10 in the video. Tidbinbilla Deep Space tracking station is a bit off to the right (and behind a range of hills). I'm frankly surprised that they've chosen Canberra (the nation's capital) as a launch city. The degree of nimbyism in Canberra would be very high with a lot of people who ar…

Maybe because it's a fairly flat city with very easy layout?

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#137

Post by oska »

anitil wrote: post #136
oska wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a better video of the drones here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0 Mount Tennent in the centre background at 0:10 in the video. Tidbinbilla Deep Space tracking station is a bit off to the right (and behind a range of hills). I'm frankly surprised that they've chosen Canberra (the nation's capital) as a launch city. The degree of nimbyism in Canberra would be very high with a lot of people who ar…

Maybe because it's a fairly flat city with very easy layout?

Easy layout, yes. Fairly flat? No. Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth are far flatter.

Canberra is situated in a horst and graben [1] landscape with multiple prominent ridges separating the various urban 'valley' sections of the city.

Don't get me wrong, I can see some of the reasons why they may have picked Canberra. Generally a population with a high percentage of early tech adopters. Houses set back from the road with easy landing driveways at front. Power lines run along the back of property lines, not along the street. Etc, etc. Just I think they underestimated the resistance they are very likely to experience and also underestimated the danger of annoying the actual lawmakers who live there.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_and_graben

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#138

Post by Sophistifunk »

oska wrote: post #119
michaelt wrote: post #11

There's a better video of the drones here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0 Google's delivery drones combine a multirotor design with fixed-wings. It seems like an eminently sensible design to me; fixed-wing operation will be quieter and more power-efficient, allowing longer travel distances (unlike the early Amazon Prime Air videos [1]), while hover capability avoids the need to parachute the load (unlike…

> There's a better video of the drones here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhDrfUgpB0 Mount Tennent in the centre background at 0:10 in the video. Tidbinbilla Deep Space tracking station is a bit off to the right (and behind a range of hills). I'm frankly surprised that they've chosen Canberra (the nation's capital) as a launch city. The degree of nimbyism in Canberra would be very high with a lot of people who ar…

They probably chose Canberra as it has no state government, which is an entire monolith of bureaucracy to avoid, and in the NT they'd probably just shoot at them ;-)

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#139

Post by bunderbunder »

csomar wrote: post #103
rhacker wrote: post #79

> Wing said the feedback obtained during its trials had been "valuable" and it hoped to "continue the dialogue". That's code for they have asked their lawyer to see what was legal and if they can simply ignore the complaints. We continue to wage war on silence. The other day I was far the heck out there on a trail and the only things I could hear were squirrels birds and a few other things. My soul was at peace. We c…

I don't know where you live. But if you were in the US then pretty much all of the land is unpopulated and quiet (except maybe for agriculture purposes but still). What you are looking for is city infrastructure with green scenery. That's possible but the price tag is going to be astronomical. You'd have to provide everything yourself (Water, Electricity, Gas, Food, etc...) Try that and you'll find out what you prefe…

> What you are looking for is city infrastructure with green scenery. That's possible but the price tag is going to be astronomical.

In a car-centric culture like what dominates in North America, maybe. I've been to a city or two, though, that accomplished the hat trick of high population density, low noise levels, and nice scenery. Brussels, for example.

I'm pretty sure the magic trick is to convince your citizens that public transportation doesn't have to just be a last resort for poor people.

Re: Google Wing will deliver to about 100 homes in Canberra

#140

Post by learc83 »

caf wrote: post #131
teraflop wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that hydrogen is orders of magnitude more energy-dense, by mass, than lithium-ion batteries. As a benchmark: the DJI Phantom weighs roughly 1kg, and its battery can store about 80kJ of electrical energy. I found a NASA study [1] which estimated that the energy released when a li-ion battery combusts is roughly 2x the usable energy capacity. So let's say that a battery fire would release 160kJ of ene…

9MJ is roughly 2kg of TNT. I'm not so sure that kind of energy release would be entirely harmless.

A kg of gasoline is about 40MJ. The speed at which the energy is released is the important factor, not the total energy.
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