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Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

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Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#131

Post by viivaux »

Simulacra wrote: post #6

I use to go back and forth on Julian, but at this point I think he should be punished, but what that punishment should be I don't know. I think Manning stealing the cables was an absolute wrong, and Assange facilitating that shows a level of culpability. He should not be afforded American protection. Crimes were committed, even if they were done with the best intentions, it was still a crime. We all count, or no one…

I dislike this comment so, so much.

> I use to go back and forth on Julian,

If there is some reason I should care about your perspective, you've certainly not shown it here. The expression is "used to", btw.

> but at this point I think he should be punished.

You know a UN panel decided his detention in the Embassy was unlawful right? The guy spent 7 years in a windowless room, separated from his wife, from his child, from his friends, from the sun...

> but what that punishment should be I don't know.

Why would you even write this then???

> I think Manning stealing the cables was an absolute wrong

An absolute wrong huh? That's quite an opinion. Other people see things differently, but you think it's absolute. ?????

> and Assange facilitating that shows a level of culpability

This really does read like it was written by a 90's chatbot.

> He should not be afforded American protection.

Mc'scuse me? That's not how the constitution works, or extradition, or any of this.

What a horrid thing to say.

Are we supposed to read this garbage and absorb it and let it in our brains without comment? I know this is supposed to be a polite forum but is this what passed for an opinion these days? Holy fuck.

> Crimes were committed, even if they were done with the best intentions, it was still a crime.

For fucks sake. Slavery was legal. Apartheid was legal. You know what was massively illegal? What Manning and Assange exposed. Shit like killing reporters for telling the truth, wars started for profit through lies, and a surveillance operation that beats the shit out of the Gestapo's wettest dreams.

> We all count, or no one counts.

I honestly can't even.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#132

Post by viivaux »

sctb wrote: post #60
wallace_f wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment reads like it was written by an algorithm.

Please don't post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

There is much more objectionable content in the original post.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#133

Post by luxuryballs »

the_watcher wrote: post #88

He has First Amendment protections. That doesn't apply to what he's being charged with, which is conspiracy to gain unauthorized access to US military systems.

I agree with Greenwald: “The DOJ says part of what Assange did to justify his prosecution - beyond allegedly helping Manning get the documents - is he encouraged Manning to get more docs for him to publish. Journalists do this with sources constantly: it's the criminalization of journalism”

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#134

Post by nocturnial »

belltaco wrote: post #98
ryanlol wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but where I'm from you need to actually do something in furtherance of the conspiracy to face prosecution. I'm not trying to make a legal argument, this just feels fundamentally wrong to me.

Assange wrote in a chat "No luck so far" to Manning. Where you are from, can you go around trying to pick locks on front doors and are only prosecuted if you succeed? And the same with cars?

This is a very poor analogy and I think you know it. Cracking the password isn't the same as using it to log in. There are still some extra steps required. In the case of picking locks there are no extra steps, you gain access immediately.

I'm only critizing the analogy, what he did, or tried is still illegal but it's barely a hack attempt and it's obvious they are desperate to charge him with anything, no matter how small the charge.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#135

Post by ENGNR »

txru wrote: post #128

Revealing unknown facts is a political act. It never occurs inside a vacuum. While it's frequently a good thing, the sort of broad statements you're making about politicians making criminals out of the 'good guys' just doesn't represent the political facts. Assange almost certainly had access to hacked information related to both the DNC and the RNC[0]. Only the DNC hacked info got released. Are we supposed to thank…

That linked article doesn't say that Assange had any RNC emails, only that Russia probably has some. Given that Russia is very pro-Trump it's not hard to imagine Russia only providing Assange with the DNC ones to publish.

And he has said that if he had RNC emails he'd have published them

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#136

Post by luxuryballs »

Simulacra wrote: post #6

I use to go back and forth on Julian, but at this point I think he should be punished, but what that punishment should be I don't know. I think Manning stealing the cables was an absolute wrong, and Assange facilitating that shows a level of culpability. He should not be afforded American protection. Crimes were committed, even if they were done with the best intentions, it was still a crime. We all count, or no one…

I’m not convinced publishing is equivalent to stealing.

Honestly I think the only people who don’t like this guy are corrupt politicians, or people who wish to give shelter to or benefit from corrupt politicians.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#137

Post by calhoun137 »

txru wrote: post #128

Revealing unknown facts is a political act. It never occurs inside a vacuum. While it's frequently a good thing, the sort of broad statements you're making about politicians making criminals out of the 'good guys' just doesn't represent the political facts. Assange almost certainly had access to hacked information related to both the DNC and the RNC[0]. Only the DNC hacked info got released. Are we supposed to thank…

I honestly feel like you comment is a perfect illustration of this point made in the OP, which was as much about citizens as it was about what politicians would like them to think:

"just fathom the authoritarian mindset that would lead a citizen -- and especially a "journalist" -- to react with anger that these things have been revealed; to insist that these facts should have been kept concealed and it'd be better if we didn't know"

By the way, the indictment for the extradition request has nothing to do with the 2016 election, but rather the Iraq war logs from back in 2010. I understand you may not like Assange very much and think he is a bad person, but I would encourage you to consider the bigger picture and that many people are raising the alarm that this is an extremely dangerous attack on the first amendment and the freedom of the press.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#138

Post by decebalus1 »

belltaco wrote: post #3

What part of the first amendment exonerates knowingly attempting to crack NTLM keys of US military logins? Or is the reasoning that the law should give him special treatment and exemptions not given to others? Also, is the 1st amendment protection even applicable to foreigners on foreign soil?

> Also, is the 1st amendment protection even applicable to foreigners on foreign soil?

If the US can prosecute foreigners doing foreign things on foreign soil, it should also strip them of all their rights. Is that your reasoning?

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#139

Post by doe88 »

I tell you what, I'm moderate, some might say a bit coward, tonight I will sleep as usual, tomorrow I won't protest, never been in a single protest in my life. But I nonetheless think there is something wrong in our current western democracies. Instead of prosecuting people committing murders in a video, these are the men and women revealing these facts that are hunted down, for years. Meanwhile, these same people don't understand when citizens in desperate attempts to shake the system vote to the fringes failing or not wanting to acknowledge the current situation. It's not going to end well, that much I know.

Re: Julian Assange Deserves First Amendment Protection

#140

Post by sigzero »

robertAngst wrote: post #7
chmaynard wrote: post #2

When is the theft of information justified? The publication of The Pentagon Papers set a precedent for this type of argument, but it's a slippery slope. My preference would be for us to promote much stronger freedom of information laws.

Freedom of Information only exists because government is historically corrupt and there needs to be a counterweight. Given the corruptness of government, Freedom of Information can be bad. Unredacted data sounds dangerous, but it asks the question- "Why is the government doing it to begin with?"

Because there ARE secrets that governments need to keep.
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