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Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

bbc.com

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Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#371

Post by anonytrary »

streb-lo wrote: post #313

Serious question HN: If Katie was a man do you think people would be going through git histories and their published papers trying to determine if she is being over-credited for her achievements?

People are already doing this on Reddit[0][1], and it's pretty silly because they obviously have no idea how Github or scientific research works. There's an effort underway to undermine Katie Bouman's contributions and it's absolutely ridiculous.

Edit: I just checked Twitter, apparently there are thousands of idiots who believe this "850,000/900,000 lines written by Andrew, therefore he wrote the algorithm" narrative. It's amazing how willing people are to eat up a low-hanging narrative as long as it confirms their world-view. All it takes is a very crude understanding of how software development works to see through this narrative.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/bbykvf/ka...

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/bbuvff/this_is_andrew...

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#372

Post by coryfklein »

hjk05 wrote: post #83
romanovcode wrote: post #2

How come she is everywhere on the internet but not at the presentation panel on live conference that was yesterday? Jeez why the downvotes? It's a legitimate question I had.

The downvotes are typical in gender politics threads. There are two fronts aggressively arguing in a “you are either with us or against us fashion” For the people questioning if she’s receiving unfair attention because of her gender they view you comment as an attack on the establishment ala: “How dare they exclude her!? Is it just because she’s a woman?” And downvote you. For the people arguing that her media covera…

This is very curious - the OP is functioning like a Rorschach for HN readers.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#373

Post by anonytrary »

bigbaguette wrote: post #349
gonational wrote: post #262

Is this the correct repo? https://github.com/achael/eht-imaging/graphs/contributors I didn't realize this was public code. It looks like one "achael" is the author of this, though.

If that's the correct repo: klbouman 90 commits 2,410 ++ 1,265 -- achael 566 commits 850,275 ++ 131,044 --

This is incredibly misleading. If you inspect the repository in more detail, 820,000 lines of the line count are actually raw matrix data, not code. achael's corrected contribution is probably closer to 20,000 lines.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#374

Post by kemitchell »

realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

I don't understand how "the woman behind the first black hole image" is hyperbole. She's a woman and she's behind the first black hole image.

I don't think anybody truly believes that taking images of black holes is a one-person job. And the title doesn't imply that. Neither does the next, boldface paragraph in the article:

> A 29-year-old computer scientist has earned plaudits worldwide for helping develop the algorithm that created the first-ever image of a black hole.

Immediately followed by:

> Katie Bouman led development of a computer program that made the breakthrough image possible.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#375

Post by jachee »

sodafountan wrote: post #342
alukima wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lines of code is not, and will never be a metric for gauging project contribution. Most of that 850,000 lines of code is likely boilerplate setup code.

850,000 loc vs what looks to be an initial commit and a merge: https://github.com/klbouman/hopstools/commits?author=klbouma... if I'm wrong here please point it out

"Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight." —Bill Gates

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#376

Post by lambdadmitry »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #284

The Chinese military used a similar method to find US spy planes - they used background signals from e.g. cell phone towers and looked for the area where there was a "blank spot" - which was the spy plane's absorption of the spectrum.

This is a popular hypothesis, but how exactly do you think it may work? It's not like you can see a "blank spot" by looking from radio sources, you'd need to put your antennas in a position where the plain will intersect your line of sight to the transmitter. And not just one, but massive number of lines if you plan to track it and deliver a missile there.

It sounds pretty improbable and I believe it's just an urban myth.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#377

Post by monksy »

soVeryTired wrote: post #369
monksy wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Margaret Hamilton with a stack of papers. That was used to say "well women are doing something very important" (If we're truly focused on equality should be yes.. that is normal.. but why is that important to advertise that message) The feeling that I'm getting from all of this is that the result is showcased to the side and they're trying to make her into a celebrity. I would love to hear her praise "her team" (he…

> I would love to hear her praise "her team" (her team is a subset of people in the whole project) Although, I don't think she has enough experience to realize that it's a good thing to do. She did that in the TED talk. And in the article linked above. And basically everywhere else she's spoken.

Oh.. I had no idea. That's awesome. I made the assumption that she did the academic thing which is "i did this" signed advisor. The assumption was based on the focus of the articles. (editorial bias)

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#378

Post by MRD85 »

streb-lo wrote: post #313

Serious question HN: If Katie was a man do you think people would be going through git histories and their published papers trying to determine if she is being over-credited for her achievements?

I think it goes both ways. If she was a man she would have never had any fame from this. However, a man wouldn't have his git checked.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#379

Post by donaldknuth123 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #283
realradicalwash wrote: post #265

Her story is trully inspiring! She seems like a really likable person, has been hard working, with great results, making a major contribution. The photo with her and the hard drives is amazing and I am sure she will inspire many to enter science. However, I think to call her "the woman behind the first black hole image" is a hyperbole. It makes it sound as if she was _the one person_ responsible that all this came ab…

> This is what makes me somewhat feel that this focus on her is not quite fair. Thought experiment: if you saw an article titled "Jony Ive: The Man Behind The iPhone" would you be commenting on how unfair it is to single him out? After all, he just designed the thing, a huge team of people built the software and the hardware that actually made it possible.

Bouman surely made an impact but she didn't lead the team or conceive of the project.

Re: Katie Bouman, the computer scientist behind the first black hole image

#380

Post by radlad »

monksy wrote: post #358
steego wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate it when news outlets and movie production companies focus on individuals and ignore the team effort and dynamic, and it's not because I care about distributing credit. I want them to tell more stories about teams and communities working together to build things, not more lone genius stories. I get it. I truly do. But consider the context: This picture of a blackhole is going around along with an iconic picture…

> Margaret Hamilton with a stack of papers. That was used to say "well women are doing something very important" (If we're truly focused on equality should be yes.. that is normal.. but why is that important to advertise that message) The feeling that I'm getting from all of this is that the result is showcased to the side and they're trying to make her into a celebrity. I would love to hear her praise "her team" (he…

From the article:

> But Dr Bouman, now an assistant professor of computing and mathematical sciences at the California Institute of Technology, insisted the team that helped her deserves equal credit.

> The effort to capture the image, using telescopes in locations ranging from Antarctica to Chile, involved a team of more than 200 scientists.

> "No one of us could've done it alone," she told CNN. "It came together because of lots of different people from many different backgrounds."

> "We're a melting pot of astronomers, physicists, mathematicians and engineers, and that's what it took to achieve something once thought impossible," Dr Bouman says.

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