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Julian Assange arrested in London
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Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#762It will be interesting to see if the US tries to extradite him. It's actually not 100% clear that he's broken any US laws in any ways that they aren't also routinely broken by newspapers. There's a few avenues: 1) Publishing classified information. Easy to show that he did this but a very difficult path to go down when American newspapers do this all the time. 2) Conspiracy to commit espionage. Probably the most like…
It's a "done deal", he WILL be extradited. https://www.exaronews.com/julian-assange-to-be-extradited-wi...
Was 7 years self-imprisonment in an embassy worth it? I'd like to know how.
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#763It will be interesting to see if the US tries to extradite him. It's actually not 100% clear that he's broken any US laws in any ways that they aren't also routinely broken by newspapers. There's a few avenues: 1) Publishing classified information. Easy to show that he did this but a very difficult path to go down when American newspapers do this all the time. 2) Conspiracy to commit espionage. Probably the most like…
I think every single one of US government's "espionage" charges over the past several decades ended in settlements. Why would a government so keen on accusing people of espionage and no doubt wanting to set a precedent for various things being classified as espionage (such as leaks), settle so easily? Well, because the charges have always been bogus and they know it. Daniel Ellsberg of the "Pentagon Papers" fame has…
> Why would a government so keen on accusing people of espionage and no doubt wanting to set a precedent for various things being classified as espionage (such as leaks), settle so easily?
Because you've misunderstood the motive: it's not about setting precedent, it's about securing convictions for the people charged. Which plea bargain guilty pleas do.
> Daniel Ellsberg of the "Pentagon Papers" fame has made it extremely difficult if not downright impossible for the government to win in such cases.
For cases like the Ellsberg case , sure, but that's because of the gross prosecutorial misconduct in that case, not the substance of the charges.
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#764Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It will be interesting to see if the US tries to extradite him. Scotland Yard has confirmed that Assange was arrested on behalf of the US after receiving a request for his extradition. https://www.theguardian.com/media/live/2019/apr/11/wikileaks... Edit: Indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr/wikileaks-founder-charg...
"5 years." Isn't he facing 10 years in UK for fleeing on bail? Does US extradite him, trial him, (jail him?) and then ship him off to the UK to serve his time there?
It would normally work in the opposite way: first he’s judged in UK, serves his sentence if any, and then he’s extradited.
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#765[deleted]
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#766Earlier quoted context omitted.
is this the case also for foreign nationals (e.g. Australians)? and in combination with terror laws and agreements[1] between UK/US (not just civil/criminal law)? I think if he does a little bit of time for jumping UK bail then the second he walks out from a UK prison the CIA will be all over abducting his ass. And he'll never be heard off again. I recall Hillary Clinton wasn't ashamed of suggesting "Can't we drone t…
The UK recently changed their stance wrt requiring no death penalties on extradition cases. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/23/uk-will-not-...
But that wasn't a extradition from the UK case. They were captured in Syria and not the UK. What the home secretary said to the US was (paraphrased) "We will not seek that they get extradited to be trialled in the UK for their crimes". Basically, "you caught them, they are yours".
The part about extraditing someone from the UK (and the rest of the EU iirc) must come with written assurances that the person will not be given the death penality is written into UK Law. To go against that would need either a change in the law or have the Home Secretary face legal repercussions of breaking the law whist acting as Home Secretary.
They would have to be 100% sure that the other country would abide by the terms. But lets say the US promised but then broke that promise once they were on US soil, then it would have wider effects on the extradition treaty with that country let alone any other relationship with that country. Would it be worth it to the US to burn the ability to extradite other people in the future for just one case?
And that is even if they are seeking such a punishment. As it stands right now, Assange is "only" charged with conspiracy to commit computer intrusion which carries a max of 5 years in prison.
Assange's legal team will make sure that other charges that may be added to the case in the future can not be given the death penality if his extradition does go though (Just because he has been arrested doesn't mean Assange doesn't have any rights to fight the extradition request.) see the case of Gary McKinnon who was facing 70 years but didn't get extradited https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon (Though in that case, it basically came down to he was seeing so much time in the US prison, he has ASD and depression that it was highly likely that he would of ended his own life then spend it in a US jail that it was deemed it would be against his human rights and the extradition dropped.).
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#767It will be interesting to see if the US tries to extradite him. It's actually not 100% clear that he's broken any US laws in any ways that they aren't also routinely broken by newspapers. There's a few avenues: 1) Publishing classified information. Easy to show that he did this but a very difficult path to go down when American newspapers do this all the time. 2) Conspiracy to commit espionage. Probably the most like…
It's not directly about leaking or espionage though. The indictment [1] says that he conspired to help crack passwords from classified government databases. [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/press-release/file/1153481...
They are in possession of some very specific irrefutable evidence, that's what it's about.
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#768Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt anybody involved in targeting and suppressing Wikileaks post-2016 is leaking their plans to Wikileaks itself.
Why? Every organization has whistleblowers. By the same token that Chelsea Manning leaked the state department cables, one can imagine a middle-tier operative with differing political ideology dropping a hint.
>Every organization has whistleblowers.
this is not clear. A sufficiently small organization needn't have whistleblowers. The extreme level of confidentially practiced in the relevant organizations ensures that the number of people privy to the knowledge and capable of leaking is very small.
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#769Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a sealed indictment against him in EDVA which was accidentally released. He has been most certainly accused of breaking United States laws. Edit: To indict someone, the government has to show the grand jury that there is sufficient evidence. It is very easy to indict someone (hence the phrase “A ham sandwich can be indicted by the grand jury”) but one has to acknowledge the fact that the federal government h…
Grand Juries have a very high indict rate, especially federal ones, but there’s arguments about why that is. One argument is obviously that grand juries are pushovers and indeed would literally indict a ham sandwich. The other argument, hinted above, is that prosecutors only move to indict if they think they have a chance to win at trial. Since the evidentiary standards are much higher for conviction, that means they…
It's not just that they're pushovers, it's a completely one-sided affair. They only hear from the prosecution (the defendant is not present, let alone granted legal representation) and the prosecution is allowed extensive leeway in attempting to gain the indictment including offering evidence that would not be allowed in trial, such as hearsay [1]. And whether a case can be won or not at trial is a secondary consideration for prosecutors. The vast majority of cases end up finishing in plea deals out of court. Above somebody mentioned 3%. The exact number will vary by state, but is invariably well below 10%.
So more important than whether a case can be won at trial is whether or not a defendant can be pressured into conceding. And in many things it's generally not hard. Imagine you think you have an 80% chance of acquittal at court, which would see you set free immediately. Yet losing at court would see you serve up to 10 years. And the prosecutor offers you 2 years + time served, which with early release means you'll be spending about a month in jail. Even though you are innocent and think there's an overwhelmingly good chance of being able to prove as such, you'd be a fool to do anything except accept the plea.
In some ways I wish plea bargains were not a thing. It'd massively reduce our arrest and imprisonment rate simply because we could not fulfill the constitutional requirement of a speedy trial with millions of people in the system for mostly irrelevant crimes, and it would also avoid this sort of 'loophole' of allowing prosecutors to score convictions even when the defendant felt he would have a good chance of defending himself at trial but is unable to do so due to risk:reward considerations.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law#A...
Re: Julian Assange arrested in London
#770Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is incredibly ill-informed, or very carefully constructed disinformation, and I'm uncomfortable that I can't tel the difference. For example: there were many illegal, suggestions of illegal, and offensive things in those, and related, email leaks, for supporters and detractors of HRC. > If you're intent to discredit Assange among his fanbase, which is largely young, male, and online: isn't rape actually the wors…
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