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Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

arstechnica.com

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Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#11

Post by blitmap »

zamadatix wrote: post #4

Downgrade attacks: WPA3 has a transitional mode which allows legacy WPA2 clients to connect. In this mode legacy WPA2 security issues are still present. Is this really a discovery or a given? How is WPA3 supposed to protect against it without requiring either WPA2 clients to be upgraded to support WPA3 security fixes (in which case you don't need WPA2 support anymore anyways) or without dropping support for transitio…

Preface: I am not at all an expert on WiFi

In WPA2 you can send deauthentication "frames" to clients to get them to disconnect from the access point. Later I was told these "control frames" can now be encrypted, with an extension/modification to WPA2 supported in the better consumer wireless routers like Linksys?

In response to your Denial of Service point: Does WPA3 make it harder to disconnect clients? (or are you talking about simply overwhelming the airspace with traffic/interference/jamming?)

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#12

Post by dcbadacd »

blitmap wrote: post #11
zamadatix wrote: post #4

Downgrade attacks: WPA3 has a transitional mode which allows legacy WPA2 clients to connect. In this mode legacy WPA2 security issues are still present. Is this really a discovery or a given? How is WPA3 supposed to protect against it without requiring either WPA2 clients to be upgraded to support WPA3 security fixes (in which case you don't need WPA2 support anymore anyways) or without dropping support for transitio…

Preface: I am not at all an expert on WiFi In WPA2 you can send deauthentication "frames" to clients to get them to disconnect from the access point. Later I was told these "control frames" can now be encrypted, with an extension/modification to WPA2 supported in the better consumer wireless routers like Linksys? In response to your Denial of Service point: Does WPA3 make it harder to disconnect clients? (or are you…

AFAIK WPA3 makes PMF (Protected Management Frames) mandatory.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#13

Post by penagwin »

zamadatix wrote: post #9
uuddlrlrbas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we have had so many problems is because these "standards" are not vetted by third-parties and therefore not allowed to test the security of these standards. The Alliance is a closed members-only committee, so yeah I don't doubt we will keep seeing these issues crop up.

I'm not going to get into the ideological debate of if the standards process is open enough or not but let me pose this: Is it not more likely the fact WPA2 was ratified in 2004 that it continues to be of questionable security to utilize in 2019?

I mean AES was established in 2001, and that's obviously still considered secure.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#14

Post by zaroth »

penagwin wrote: post #13
zamadatix wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to get into the ideological debate of if the standards process is open enough or not but let me pose this: Is it not more likely the fact WPA2 was ratified in 2004 that it continues to be of questionable security to utilize in 2019?

I mean AES was established in 2001, and that's obviously still considered secure.

Primitives vs Protocols.

Encryption primitives rarely fail. The protocols build on top of them seem to consistently fail.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#15

Post by benchaney »

zaroth wrote: post #14
penagwin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean AES was established in 2001, and that's obviously still considered secure.

Primitives vs Protocols. Encryption primitives rarely fail. The protocols build on top of them seem to consistently fail.

There is no inherent reason that this is true, other than the fact that in order for primitives to be widely use they go through a open vetting process.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#16

Post by benchaney »

zamadatix wrote: post #9
uuddlrlrbas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we have had so many problems is because these "standards" are not vetted by third-parties and therefore not allowed to test the security of these standards. The Alliance is a closed members-only committee, so yeah I don't doubt we will keep seeing these issues crop up.

I'm not going to get into the ideological debate of if the standards process is open enough or not but let me pose this: Is it not more likely the fact WPA2 was ratified in 2004 that it continues to be of questionable security to utilize in 2019?

No, because:

1. WPA3, which has only recently been created, is riddled with issues.

2. Many things much older than WPA2 are still used today without major issues e.g. AES and RSA.

The idea that standards processes aught to be open is not a ideological debate anymore. At this point it is a simple truth backed by overwhelming empirical evidence.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#17

Post by zamadatix »

blitmap wrote: post #11
zamadatix wrote: post #4

Downgrade attacks: WPA3 has a transitional mode which allows legacy WPA2 clients to connect. In this mode legacy WPA2 security issues are still present. Is this really a discovery or a given? How is WPA3 supposed to protect against it without requiring either WPA2 clients to be upgraded to support WPA3 security fixes (in which case you don't need WPA2 support anymore anyways) or without dropping support for transitio…

Preface: I am not at all an expert on WiFi In WPA2 you can send deauthentication "frames" to clients to get them to disconnect from the access point. Later I was told these "control frames" can now be encrypted, with an extension/modification to WPA2 supported in the better consumer wireless routers like Linksys? In response to your Denial of Service point: Does WPA3 make it harder to disconnect clients? (or are you…

As dcbadacd described this protection capability (.11w) is mandatory to be WPA3 certified and when operating in WPA3 mode. Transitional mode (WPA2 compatible mode) doesn't mandate it's use because not all WPA2 clients are compatible with it.

The denial of service I'm talking about is as simple as setting up a virtual AP out of your laptop wifi adapter and constantly sending broadcast frames out at max rate. Similar to screaming loudly to interrupt a secret conversation rather than actually attacking the encoded language.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#18

Post by hackdown »

zaroth wrote: post #14
penagwin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean AES was established in 2001, and that's obviously still considered secure.

Primitives vs Protocols. Encryption primitives rarely fail. The protocols build on top of them seem to consistently fail.

The principle, the theory is always good. The protocols are implementations, and often implementations are badly done. See with all versions of SSL/TLS prior to TLS 1.3

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#19

Post by zamadatix »

entropy_ wrote: post #10
zamadatix wrote: post #4

Downgrade attacks: WPA3 has a transitional mode which allows legacy WPA2 clients to connect. In this mode legacy WPA2 security issues are still present. Is this really a discovery or a given? How is WPA3 supposed to protect against it without requiring either WPA2 clients to be upgraded to support WPA3 security fixes (in which case you don't need WPA2 support anymore anyways) or without dropping support for transitio…

The downgrade attack works even if both the AP and the device connecting to it are WPA3 capable, that part is not a given

"WPA3 capable" means nothing one way or the other about WPA3 if you are running it in WPA2 mode though. That's my point.

Re: Serious flaws leave WPA3 vulnerable to hacks that steal Wi-Fi passwords

#20

Post by [deleted] »

entropy_ wrote: post #10
zamadatix wrote: post #4

Downgrade attacks: WPA3 has a transitional mode which allows legacy WPA2 clients to connect. In this mode legacy WPA2 security issues are still present. Is this really a discovery or a given? How is WPA3 supposed to protect against it without requiring either WPA2 clients to be upgraded to support WPA3 security fixes (in which case you don't need WPA2 support anymore anyways) or without dropping support for transitio…

The downgrade attack works even if both the AP and the device connecting to it are WPA3 capable, that part is not a given

[deleted]
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