Live data from Hacker News

996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

chanind.github.io

131–140 of 146 posts

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#131
I don't see this going anywhere. Anyone seriously pushing this will just be replaced. Chinese companies will probably take the US approach and just ignore/cover up the whole thing, or make some handwavey pithy gestures.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I doubt it.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#132
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sane number of hours per week is far below 40. In France, we have a 35 hour work week. I am sure we can (and I think we must) go lower without losing much. Less hours for better hours.

My experience of working for a massive company in france was we had a "35 hour" workweek, which cadres would regularly ignore. They were typically doing 8:30-7pm or 9pm-7pm.

Same for me, moreover "cadres" tends to have a contract based on the number of days per year worked and not the hours per week

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#133
post #6

Do Chinese workers not have the flexibility to avoid working for companies that force these schedules on them? I know next to nothing about working life in China, but wouldn't workers generally gravitate to the companies that value work/life balance? Is working for these companies just worth the prestige for some?

Yes, and no. IT development is one of the best paying professional jobs in China, commanding 3x to 8x a typical office worker's salary. If you have skills, experience, or for a fresh graduate an interest, in what in the US would be considered a mainstream enterprisy (Java, Angular, .NET) and passable English or Japanese language skills, you can get a position in development with a Fortune 500 or as a contractor to a…

>There is a big age ceiling. 15 years experience doesn't pay much better than 5 years experience and will often be met with questions about why not able to move into product ownership of management, but that's another topic.

Is product ownership or management seriously considered a better job in China? At almost all places I worked at in EU middle management/product ownership is considered a less desirable position.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... we do not have the same problems. Every single software engineer I know does not work 996 even if they work at a fast-paced startup

Not 996, but some of the h1bs from India go through something similar 5 days a week. Many of them have to attend 'offshore calls' with the team in India which usually starts around 10 pm and goes till midnight, in addition to the regular 9-5 work. One h1b guy I know had his schedule like this - attend early morning 1-1.5 hour meetings at 6.30 am on 3 days of a week, work from 9/9.30-4 (sometimes 5 or 6), attend offsh…

The same goes for people in India working with US workers though.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, switching to private communications has never been easier, at least for person-to-person chat. (Signal, etc.)

The question here was public discourse (or mass media if you will). Securing a private channel is a very different problem altogether.

There is some overlap because articles can reach a wide audience via forwarding. It would be used more if there weren't easier ways to do it.

Unfortunately this would also mean spreading the sort of crap as debunked on Snopes.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#136

> At the time of writing, the 996 website isn’t blocked in China, but greedy tech companies have decided to block it themselves. Tencent’s Wechat refuses to open the site, as does Alibaba’s UC Browser and Qihoo’s 360 browser. This is what you get when you give companies to power to censor information…

I've been saying this for years: censorship, like many things, has been privatized. Things like the First Amendment in the US are inadequate for the modern age, because the majority of our discourse touches multiple intermediary businesses on its way between individuals. There is no "just herpderp yourself" when communication and publication in our digital society involves information coming in contact with a handful…

This form of communication is brand new. If you don't have the right to free speech now you never had it.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#137
post #6

Do Chinese workers not have the flexibility to avoid working for companies that force these schedules on them? I know next to nothing about working life in China, but wouldn't workers generally gravitate to the companies that value work/life balance? Is working for these companies just worth the prestige for some?

Yes, and no. IT development is one of the best paying professional jobs in China, commanding 3x to 8x a typical office worker's salary. If you have skills, experience, or for a fresh graduate an interest, in what in the US would be considered a mainstream enterprisy (Java, Angular, .NET) and passable English or Japanese language skills, you can get a position in development with a Fortune 500 or as a contractor to a…

It does, thanks for taking the time. I would definitely be gunning for the "mainstream enterprisy" positions over the BAT wannabes given the option, but as some have said, sometimes the choices aren't that straightforward or open.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#138

For those of us who employ developers remotely and ask for a sane number of hours per week (usually 40), does this mean there's an opportunity to hire great developers from China who would like to have better work/life balance? Where would I start?

Two things that seem like they might be impediments: - Traversing the Great Firewall is slow and unreliable. Having team members on either side of it wouldn't be great for collaboration. - I seem to remember reading about somebody complaining that sending money to Chinese citizens from abroad can be very difficult. I don't recall the details though.

Sending out money from china can be a real pain. The government requires a contract be on file. I’m dealing with this right now on the receiving end as US citizen. Apparently there are certain cases like paying US engineers which get rubber stamp approval, but there’s been some inconsistencies in payments that make me wonder if it’s partly due to invoices being higher than expected than the contract on file.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#139
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To block the 996 Github presence on Github would mean to block Github, as Github is served via HTTPS. That's not viable as Github is far too useful to block (IIRC it and StackOverflow were blocked a couple of years ago but then unblocked due to uproar from the tech industry). To block Github 966 pages specifically means the domestic browsers are pre-filtering URL requests before they're made. And that means these dom…

Too useful to block is a concept China doesn’t acknowledge. Too troublesome to not block is how it operates.

Unabashed orientalism. China blocks as a means of self preservation.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder if someone could start a GitHub repo mirroring, e.g., news articles that are censored by various governments. Could be a nice way of making censorship difficult.

http://lite.cnn.io/ would be a great candidate site for easy publishing to Github in some sort of markdown. Of course I imagine there would be license problems.

Yeah. It wouldn't even just be news--historical documents could also be helpful.
Post reply on HN