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Julian Assange arrested in London

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, I know about the top-down reopening of the case, but do we know for a fact that the original accusations were kosher, or is this just presumption of innocence for the girls? (I mean, presumption of innocence is important and too often [the word escapes me... only imperfectly/partially given to] would-be sex offenders. On the grounds that we are judging some random girls it should apply; OTOH on the grounds that…

I need some help unrolling your position. If someone raped a non-random woman that you were close to and respectful of, would it be reasonable for you to draw a character inference of her rapist? Would the accused rapist fleeing the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution make you asses his character more positively? Would you suggest to or feel that a non-random woman that she take one for the team because her rapist is a…

There’s a line between taking the version of the accused and the version of the accuser. In any crime situation. Many factors, including evidence, determine where this line lies.

In sex crimes where the victims are women, current mores bias it toward “believing the victims”. Whether this is not appropriate is a digression I don’t want to entertain here. Everywhere there are baseline scenarios and sex crimes with female victims have that element. For the effects of this discussion I’m willing to take that as a given.

That said, there are other variables at play. Parent comment was questioning the legitimacy of the entire process, including the reopening by top-down orders of a case that had been already dismissed.

We’re either willing or unwilling to lend credence to the narrative that something about this whole situation is manipulated toward getting Assange, a notorious fly in the soup of major powers with the capacity to pull a bogus extradition off. Skepticism of this narrative is not unwarranted; it has certain elements typical of conspiracy theories.

But: if we do co-sign this narrative, then as of this very moment Assange is about to face unjust trial in the US. In the face of that, we have to consider the character judgments his accusers will be able to sell to the courts.

OTOH the “random girls” have much less to lose in this whole situation if we bias our understanding of the original sex accusations in favor of Assange, considering that the case had already been dismissed and they’ve been kept anonymous enough that they’re unlikely to experience any ongoing life disruption.

The whole matter is made of uncertainties. To bias one’s subjective assessment in one direction is not to believe it wholesale. But overall the shades of gray matter dramatically.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#502
post #172

In the Afghan War Documents leak, Julian Assange refused to redact the names of Afghans who informed on the Taliban. He referred to them as “spies and traitors” in comments to the media. A reporter for the Guardian claims he said, “Well, they're informants. So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it.” Nasty way to diss on fellow leakers, in my opinion. I wonder if Mr. Assange feels he hims…

From your link: Guardian journalist, David Leigh, claimed that Julian Assange initially refused to redact the names of informants.[62] In his book, co-authored with Luke Harding, WikiLeaks: Inside Julian Assange's War on Secrecy, Leigh claimed Assange to have said in relation to whether the names should be redacted, "Well, they're informants. So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it."[63…

He hasn't strongly denied it. He said in 2011 that he would sue them for reporting the quote. He hasn't. Anyone can say "it's not true" on twitter. I don't call that a strong denial.

In any case, the names of informants were published. He did it. That's all you need to know about the man.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#503

It will be interesting to see if the US tries to extradite him. It's actually not 100% clear that he's broken any US laws in any ways that they aren't also routinely broken by newspapers. There's a few avenues: 1) Publishing classified information. Easy to show that he did this but a very difficult path to go down when American newspapers do this all the time. 2) Conspiracy to commit espionage. Probably the most like…

I wish Australia would step up and actually defend one of their citizens.

Lookup the Queen of Australia.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#504
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Russia leaked the emails (not certain as the media would have you believe at all, not saying it’s conspiracy but It’s not conclusive), the information regarding massive corruption in the DNC was true, and that information being public is 1) good and 2) important.

Isn't it confirmed that the Russians hacked the DNC e-mails on the day that Trump famously said: 'Russia, if you're listening...". Wasn't that in the indictment for the 12 members of the GRU?

No, it's not, nor is it related.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd massively disagree with the statement "You don't need to know more than that.", and I'd love to see some sources to back this up. Randomly spewing "facts" with no evidence to back up your claim can be quite damaging.

This was widely reported back when the case was hot. It’s not exactly news. https://www.rawstory.com/2010/12/assange-rape-accuser-cia-ti...

it’s not exactly news because it’s “rawstory” propaganda.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Raw_Story

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#506

Any possible relation to the arrest of Assange? IMF board approves $4.2 bln financing deal with Ecuador March 11 (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund’s executive board approved the $4.2 billion financing deal with Ecuador https://www.reuters.com/article/ecuador-imf/imf-board-approv...

That article is a month old——so, unlikely.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only does my post appeal to emotion, it openly appeals to emotion. On the other hand, your post uses the appeal to middle ground fallacy. If your list of priorities starts with anything other than stopping the routine torture of children, then your grand scheme of things is probably evil.

What if a child torturer is helping you save other lives and end the war sooner thus saving innumerable lives? Do you see how torture is bad but there are other variables?

You sound like those US TV dramas where the main character is a kind cop put before a dilemma to either pouch an ugly terrorist once or twice on the nose or a school bus full of cute little children will be blown up by a bomb.

Yeah, in theory, there are other variables. In practice, the chances are that if you turn a blind eye to the routine torture children you are simply an evil person.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#508

It will be interesting to see if the US tries to extradite him. It's actually not 100% clear that he's broken any US laws in any ways that they aren't also routinely broken by newspapers. There's a few avenues: 1) Publishing classified information. Easy to show that he did this but a very difficult path to go down when American newspapers do this all the time. 2) Conspiracy to commit espionage. Probably the most like…

> The Home Office has confirmed the US request for Assange’s extradition is for an alleged “computer-related offence”. (guardian)

Update

>The US justice department has confirmed that it issued an extradition request for Assange “in connection with a federal charge of conspiracy to commit computer intrusion for agreeing to break a password to a classified US government computer”.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#509

I just want to know, from the people who seemed to have turned against Assange, how do you know it's not a concerted disinformation / propaganda campaign to remove all his credibility and reduce public support? By my reckoning It's really hard to know what to even believe about a guy who might credibly be targeted by that.

Coordinating the releases of DNC emails with the Trump campaign is what did it for me. Wikileaks as a neutral outlet for leaking evidence of corruption is fine and in the past the worst anyone could say is that they were in way over their heads (remember the "insurance file"?). In 2016 Assange allowed politics to slip into the decision-making process, and gave up what credibility he and Wikileaks had.

Re: Julian Assange arrested in London

#510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Australia would step up and actually defend one of their citizens.

Wikileaks has leaked 10 some-odd documents on Australia, so I don't expect them to go to bat for him. The problem with being a uniform thorn in everybody's side is you run out of friends.

Assange is anything but a uniform thorn. He has continually supported and looked out for Russian interests.

If he wasn't biased there would be a lot more public support for him.

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