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The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

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Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#31

Post by DanBC »

candiodari wrote: post #29
nickbarnwell wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a both a large and strong evidence base for the usage of ECT in cases of severe, treatment resistant depression. Many aspects of modern medicine can be made to sound barbaric with the right framing; those who disparage ECT are not so quick to characterise chemotherapy as “poison by any other name” or dialysis a “vampiric ball and chain”. By the time ECT is on the table, every other option is exhausted and th…

And yet from the article ... "But he acquiesced when told that if he resisted, the hospital would seek a court order to overrule him." Are you claiming they would do this, yet have the deeply depressed patient's honest agreement ? I don't buy that. This was forced, under threat of force. To protect the hospital against having a successful suicide attempt on their record. Symptoms return. Normal cognitive function doe…

> successful suicide

Clumsy language like this is a sign that you don't know as much about this subject as you think you do.

Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#33

Post by AlexandrB »

kristianp wrote: post #16

This is the most readable webpage I have seen for a while. The combination of background colour, black font, font face and line height make for an extremely readable page. Far better than the popular but varyingly unreadable white background and gray text. That ECT is still around after all this time, speaks to its effectiveness, despite some of the vehement comments on this page.

[flagged]

Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#35

Post by justyc »

imperio59 wrote: post #11
bellerose wrote: post #9

My opinion is suicide being the better outcome than electroconvulsive therapy. People are so irrational in fearing the unknown "death" that they'll do something barbaric to themselves and where the outcome is creating a disabled version of their former self. Humanity is really disgusting. First, we label people with "depression" a word denoting human expression built upon a pseudo practice named psychiatry and where…

We used to offer support and accept that sadness and sorrow were a part of life and that sometimes people needed to grieve, or people went through rough patches, and eventually got themselves out of it with the help of others. Now we say sadness and depression are diseases that must be medicated with drugs whose side effects (WRITTEN ON THE LABEL) include suicidal ideation and depression, and we wonder why the suicid…

Clinical depression is real, and not "sadness and sorrow". I know first-hand. Medication has drastically improved my physical health, and my mental health improved soon after, as I was no longer bedridden after 5+ years. Antidepressants are definitely overprescribed though, and the "low serotonin" marketing was debunked before the first antidepressant even hit the market.

Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#36

Post by justyc »

bellerose wrote: post #9

My opinion is suicide being the better outcome than electroconvulsive therapy. People are so irrational in fearing the unknown "death" that they'll do something barbaric to themselves and where the outcome is creating a disabled version of their former self. Humanity is really disgusting. First, we label people with "depression" a word denoting human expression built upon a pseudo practice named psychiatry and where…

Suicide can be the best option sometimes, but you're absolutely wrong to say clinical depression doesn't exist. It's not nearly as common as the pharmaceutical and psychiatry industries like to promote, but I know first-hand that medication can work, as I went from being bedridden for over five years, to completely functional, almost overnight.

Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#38

Post by jdietrich »

imperio59 wrote: post #5
Analemma_ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is dangerous and irresponsible. This is not the 40’s, ECT is not used lightly; it is the treatment of last resort for severe depression when lifestyle changes, medication and therapy have all failed. The side effects are well-understood and patients who choose ECT do so because the alternative is unbearable. What you are saying cashes out to the claim that depression can be overcome with sheer positivity…

Sorry but there are dozens of studies and hundreds of reports of people basically losing memories of entire portions of their life and the ability to do simple things like tie their shoelaces or do simple math after just one round of ECT. How this is still not banned by the FDA is beyond me. Not to mention the number of people who get heart complications from it or outright die during the procedure. How can you say t…

>How can you say that "the alternative is unbearable"is beyond me, unless you're saying it's better to become mentally disabled than suffer from depression?

Most people who would be considered eligible for ECT are actively suicidal; if they are released from hospital, they are almost certain to attempt suicide. Some are suffering from catatonic depression and are too depressed to perform even the most basic tasks, often including eating and drinking. The overwhelming majority are being held on secure psychiatric wards for their own protection. The alternative to ECT is usually death. If you don't understand this (or refuse to acknowledge it), then you don't understand why doctors continue to use ECT.

Chemotherapy is horrible. It makes you constantly and violently nauseous, it makes your hair fall out, it can cause lasting physical damage and the side-effects are sometimes fatal. It's horrible, but it's better than the alternative, which is dying of cancer.

The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that ECT is a life-saving medical intervention.

The first link you posted is a highly biased summary of evidence compiled by CCHR, a known Scientology front group; Scientology opposes all forms of psychiatry, largely because of the belief that its own (completely unproven) method of Dianetics is capable of resolving all forms of mental distress. Please see DanBC's comment for a more accurate summary of the evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_Commission_on_Human_R...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry

Your second link is to a citizens petition orchestrated by a law firm; the petition was rejected by the FDA on the basis of the evidence.

https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=FDA-2...

Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#39

Post by jdietrich »

DanBC wrote: post #31
candiodari wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet from the article ... "But he acquiesced when told that if he resisted, the hospital would seek a court order to overrule him." Are you claiming they would do this, yet have the deeply depressed patient's honest agreement ? I don't buy that. This was forced, under threat of force. To protect the hospital against having a successful suicide attempt on their record. Symptoms return. Normal cognitive function doe…

> successful suicide Clumsy language like this is a sign that you don't know as much about this subject as you think you do.

I don't know why this is being downvoted; the correct term is "completed suicide", because "successful suicide" implies that death is a desirable outcome.

https://www.samaritans.org/documents/1/Samaritans_Media_Guid...

Re: The misunderstood consequences of electroconvulsive therapy

#40

Post by jdietrich »

candiodari wrote: post #29
nickbarnwell wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a both a large and strong evidence base for the usage of ECT in cases of severe, treatment resistant depression. Many aspects of modern medicine can be made to sound barbaric with the right framing; those who disparage ECT are not so quick to characterise chemotherapy as “poison by any other name” or dialysis a “vampiric ball and chain”. By the time ECT is on the table, every other option is exhausted and th…

And yet from the article ... "But he acquiesced when told that if he resisted, the hospital would seek a court order to overrule him." Are you claiming they would do this, yet have the deeply depressed patient's honest agreement ? I don't buy that. This was forced, under threat of force. To protect the hospital against having a successful suicide attempt on their record. Symptoms return. Normal cognitive function doe…

>You might as well shoot the person. That has the same demonstrated effect.

This is ludicrous hyperbole. The majority of people who receive ECT are successfully treated and go on to live fulfilling lives. ECT is an evidence-based treatment for a life-threatening medical condition.

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