How do we push back on these agencies for their obvious flawed process?
Constitutionally amend the EU, revert it to being more of an economic body than a judicial body.
EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
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Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#32Maybe we should have some anonymous (preferably distributed) internet archive which is only available through tor?
Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#33So underfunded and overworked EU agency is asked to manage reporting for poorly thought out and overly broad legislation. Maybe this is the best outcome as it might provide a valid defense for those who choose to ignore the notices.
> So underfunded and overworked EU agency Like engineers who have never underestimated their time commitments to a project, government agencies have never been overfunded.
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Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don’t push back on the process, we push back on the principle. The point of the principle of free speech is not that all speech is beneficial but that we can’t possibly trust any agency with the power to decide what is and isn’t. The “process” probably has no more flaws than any other process designed and implemented by mortals, it just goes to demonstrate why the whole censor-the-internet idea is wrong.
Where do you stand on falsely claiming "fire" in a crowded movie theater?
Depends on how false false is. If someone actually believes there to be a fire that's one thing. If someone is clearly doing it with intent to cause harm to others, then that's a crime and they should be charged with such; after the fact.
I'm against installing verbal filters on everyone just in case someone might shout 'fire' in a crowded place with intent to cause harm.
Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#35It's very sad to see the path the EU has chosen to follow in regards to speech and the free flow of ideas.
It's a path that pre-dates the EU. We're a crowded continent with a huge amount of diversity and a long and bitter history of war. We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged. Free speech is not unc…
> there are many things that an American could say that would see them brought before the courts.
Unless it's libel (i.e. intentional or neglectful causing of actual harm to a person) or speech connected to specific lawless action (like saying "let's whack this guy" to a contract killer) - no, there's not. Which things do you mean?
> Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged
Germans problem was not just "incitement". It was putting Hitler in charge of the government. That wasn't done by "incitement", that was done by actual German top politicians, who thought that putting a strong leader in charge and suppressing opposition (Ermächtigungsgesetz and so on) will solve their stability problems. They did it for security, to keep the tranquility and peace in the nation, so they had the troublemakers arrested and the people who can right the course of the nation assigned the power instead. Too bad those people turned out to be the Nazis.
I think the lesson from here is that no opposition voice needs to be suppressed, no group should be excluded, and nobody should be given absolute power over others. Somehow some people in EU think that the lesson if that right people just need to suppress the right things instead. After all, we have so good record in choosing who are the right people and what things they should be suppressing, don't we? We won't make any mistakes again there?
Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#36Funny how exactly EU follows the path Russia has recently taken. After Russia passed the law that banned online material promoting terrorist content, suicide, drug information and harm to children, and so on, there was an avalanche of false takedown requests and misidentifications, including attempting to block Wikipedia, ban Bhagavad Gita commentary (yes, really) and many more anecdotes that sound funny unless you l…
Russia banned drug information? What sort of information, like pharmacology?
Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#37Maybe we should have some anonymous (preferably distributed) internet archive which is only available through tor?
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Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#38Not quite my circus, not quite my monkeys, but I wonder if it's possible to fight fire with fire.
Could a committed group of individuals report the most pernicious EU politicians' homepages and facebook pages as similarly banned content? Looks like the firehose has overwhelmed whatever inadequate safeguards they originally had in place.
Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don’t push back on the process, we push back on the principle. The point of the principle of free speech is not that all speech is beneficial but that we can’t possibly trust any agency with the power to decide what is and isn’t. The “process” probably has no more flaws than any other process designed and implemented by mortals, it just goes to demonstrate why the whole censor-the-internet idea is wrong.
Where do you stand on falsely claiming "fire" in a crowded movie theater?
I'm not a lawyer but am pretty sure it would fall under any number of other laws if someone was to get hurt or you caused a disruption. There doesn't need to be a separate law protecting you from someone saying something you find objectionable.
- disturbing the peace ( if nobody got hurt ) - causing bodily harm by criminal negligence - inciting to riot
Re: EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
#40It's very sad to see the path the EU has chosen to follow in regards to speech and the free flow of ideas.
It's a path that pre-dates the EU. We're a crowded continent with a huge amount of diversity and a long and bitter history of war. We have learned through bitter experience that, while free speech is a precious right, it is also an extremely dangerous one in the wrong circumstances. Germans in particular are acutely aware of the disastrous consequences of allowing incitement to go unchallenged. Free speech is not unc…
You're being disingenuous. Nazi Germany's rise to power was a composite of many different factors. You make it seem as though free speech was the sole cause of its ascendance.