It never was a "good deal", it was always a lottery. And one that you're set up to lose if you're not a co-founder.
Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
131–140 of 391 posts
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Though at F and G there is the cost of having to rationalize working for an organization that is evil.
Nobody ever said that about the As!!
I'm pretty certain I've heard Amazon described as "evil". Apple are less objectionable, but I'm sure there are some things that somebody wouldn't like.
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#133having worked at a lot of startups with various outcomes, I've come to firmaly believe the net preset value of your options is actually correct. If you take all the shares I've ever had options given on, and multiplied them by the strike price, it isn't far off from the ultimate amount of money they've been worth. The variance is high between each one, but taken together..
If you get a 100,000 shares at 0.10 each...they are likely over multiple trials going to be worth around 10K. Act accordingly.
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's "pissing in the pool" for the rest of us. I know it feels validated internally because it worked out for you though. Even when I did a startup, I held pretty normal hours. Working on someone else's problem to make them rich is silly to me. I think it's something that you either get or you don't. I don't plan to convince you to change sides, but I'd 100% of the time rather spend hours 8 or 9 through 12 working on…
Wait, I enjoy my job, want to write code and get lost in my work and you think that’s pissing in the pool? I know some people at work that sort of have your mindset. I think it’s the worst. Not only do they not want to help someone who’s passionate you now make me suspect they’re incentivized to undermine hard workers as well, since they make you look bad. Fine, take it easy at work, I don’t care. Just don’t make it…
You are being exploited. Do you get compensated 1.5x your base for all those 12 hour work days?
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not exactly a unique experience, but my .05 - I started of at a startup with a "lol just do it" attitude to whatever the problem was. Worked 12 hours a day a lot, was stressed out all the time, didn't have a life, got calls at odd hours to deploy...but, if I didn't have that experience, I wouldn't have grown nearly as fast. Got to see all aspects of the products and the consequences of the decisions we made early on.…
FWIW, I've worked with a lot of entry-level people at normal companies over the years and would estimate that noob gainz are 30-50% higher in startup land for the first 1-2 years of career, maybe 10-20% higher the next two, then flat or actually lower than corporate thereafter. I think it comes down to 1) startups pile a lot more responsibility onto their young hires than normal companies are comfortable with + 2) st…
I resonate with your observation. I did the reverse, i.e.: FANG, fintech, pre-ipo then start-up after already achieved senior staff level. Start-up didn't tech me anything new unfortunately.
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
FANG is undisputably the best risk-adjusted compensation return for a programmer, and they're up there in terms of working with super smart colleagues, and therefore they have a high floor, compared to say a startup that goes nowhere with the blind leading the blind, but the ceiling is also constrained by what projects you're working on. In terms of raw software engineering development there's probably no substitute…
Though at F and G there is the cost of having to rationalize working for an organization that is evil.
They don't look "evil" from the inside. And even from the outside, one needs to considerably stretch the definition of "evil" to call them that.
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#137Why don't startups offer actual equity grants instead of options? It seemed strange to me when I was starting out in my career that I needed to take a lower salary and options to exercise upon my exit, which wound up costing me thousands of dollars from that lower salary. Two years later, one founder forced out his two other cofounders, started a new company in the exact same space, and poached his best employees, es…
Maybe this used to happen earlier, but I only really saw this after the DotCom bust. In my case it was founders/execs issuing themselves new/preferred stock and diluting all their coworkers into oblivion on an exit. Granted, these were small shops ~30 people and the exits were small ~$100M, but the effects were devastating. Everyone who could quit, did. People for whom an extra few $100k would have been a big deal wo…
I lived through an experience very similar to this. The little people got peanuts. Two things really burned me. One was exactly the point you made, with such a small team it would haven't been much to make the payout go from pathetic to meaningful for the peons who put years into the company. Second the sale contract specified employees would continue to receive similar salaries. So our salaries did not change, options that took years to vest were cashed in for little money, and the company suddenly had plenty of extra money to go on a hiring streak.
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#138Valid reasons to work for a startup: - You are a cofounder. - You have little experience and you are using this to break into the industry, and get experience on many different technologies ("wear many hats"). - They are working on a very specific problem or using a specific technology that you strongly desire to work on and it's difficult to do it anywhere else. - You want to work a certain way (remote, on the beach…
"Making a lot of money in salary." I think a bit of perspective is in order. When the bar for comparison is technical principles at FAANG, yes. If you want to own a house, have paid-for cars, put your kid through school, put away savings, and otherwise be completely comfortable then you can do just fine. That is "wealthy" for a lot of people in this country. I know someone that delivered food to restaurants. He woke…
I didn't pay a college and skip out on 4 years of full time work to compare my work life balance options to your delivery driver buddy. He's simply not at the table in the conversation. I don't care about his situation.
That said, I do Postmates for fun on the side and it's awesome. Grinding out hours delivering stuff is honestly pretty chill. Engineering is at least 2x as mentally taxing, unless you're delivering in weird weather conditions. I can put in 4 hours of delivering without grabbing a meal prior and be ready for 4 more no problem.
The work never comes home with you. You're never sitting there wondering "how do I be more effective?" or "how do I even start to solve this issue?". There's little to no politics and 80% or more of the gig is me riding a motorcycle around and popping a few wheelies.
Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, I enjoy my job, want to write code and get lost in my work and you think that’s pissing in the pool? I know some people at work that sort of have your mindset. I think it’s the worst. Not only do they not want to help someone who’s passionate you now make me suspect they’re incentivized to undermine hard workers as well, since they make you look bad. Fine, take it easy at work, I don’t care. Just don’t make it…
You are being exploited. Do you get compensated 1.5x your base for all those 12 hour work days?
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Re: Startup Stock Options – Why a Good Deal Has Gone Bad
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too would like to win the lottery.
If you think of the Valley (or wherever you are) as a lottery then your chances of winning are about the same as those of a lottery. If you think of yourself as your personal VC then your odds approach those of a VC which while not great and moreover not diversified, they are much much better than a lottery.
How do you diversify as an employee/engineer? work for 10 startups at the same time?