Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing • Hacker News Board

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#31

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:01 PM UTC

tk75x wrote: post #20

ryanmarsh wrote: post #11

It’s my understanding that adhering steel to glass has not been an issue for some time. The issue is that they expand differently with heat. Which is why you have a rubber/flexible seal.

“We tested the welds at -50C to 90C and the welds remained intact, so we know they are robust enough to cope with extreme conditions.”

That's a meaningless statement without knowing what kind of assembly they built, the shape of the joint between the materials was and if the test sample was heated evenly or unevenly.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#32

Post by 14 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:03 PM UTC

gattilorenz wrote: post #25

excalibur wrote: post #15

Eyeglasses with frames welded to the lenses would be kinda cool, and may even justify current commercial price points (not that they would be sold for them).

Wouldn't it be impossible, then, to replace the lenses with new ones (in case of scratches, or with eyesight changes over time)?

I suppose but personally I have only ever heard of people changing the entire frames with the glass. What a wasteful time we live in.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#33

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

AllegedAlec wrote: post #24

tk75x wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We tested the welds at -50C to 90C and the welds remained intact, so we know they are robust enough to cope with extreme conditions.”

They don't specify anything about the nature of that weld though, for example how big the glass and the iron pieces were, and whether it was a point weld or a continuous weld, and the geometry of the weld itself (for example if it had an inside/outside corner).

They also didn't mention if it was heated evenly or not.

This sounds like a "we have to hype up the practical applications of our research because that's what you do if you want more funding for next year" type of article. They don't even include hypothetical example applications.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#34

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

14 wrote: post #32

gattilorenz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be impossible, then, to replace the lenses with new ones (in case of scratches, or with eyesight changes over time)?

I suppose but personally I have only ever heard of people changing the entire frames with the glass. What a wasteful time we live in.

If it saves human time, it’s not wasteful. Time is the ultimate nonrenewable resource, while we are awash in materials.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#35

Post by hadlock » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

MisterTea wrote: post #27

AllegedAlec wrote: post #8

Sounds really interesting. The only potential downside I see is that metal and glass generally expand differently under heat and have different tensile strengths etc. I wonder how they plan to deal with that.

Plenty of glass to metal sealing is done for hermetic purposes. One use is glass sealed connectors for aerospace use. Also components for ultra high vacuum systems which use metal to glass (or ceramic) joints to transition between materials or electrical isolation.

Generally these metal-glass joints use a sealant that also acts as an expansion joint. The California Academy of Sciences (that building with the grass on the roof with the circular windows) has a rainforest sphere made out of 8x8 foot panels, if you inspect the joints they are sealed with 1" of silicone caulking to account for different rates of expansion of the glass in four directions. This silicone caulking is almost the consistency of chewing gum.

Without that expansion joint, directly welded together, I'm curious how say, a Pixel 3 with the screen welded to the metal case would do. I can imagine a situation where the case and screen expand differently and end up cracking the screen.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#36

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #34

14 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose but personally I have only ever heard of people changing the entire frames with the glass. What a wasteful time we live in.

If it saves human time, it’s not wasteful. Time is the ultimate nonrenewable resource, while we are awash in materials.

Being wasteful with materials may cost future humans a lot of time.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#37

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

MichaelApproved wrote: post #30

crispyambulance wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on the application and scale whether or not that is an issue. For joints that are intended to remain at a constant temperature, no problem. For very small structures where thermal expansion amounts to very little relative displacements, also no problem. But, yeah, this isn't a solution for joining outdoor windows to metal frames.

> But, yeah, this isn't a solution for joining outdoor windows to metal frames. Says who? Welds held up to pretty harsh conditions -50C to 90C.

Just because a test joint of unknown size and shape held up over that range doesn't mean an actual real world assembly can hold up over that range. We know nothing about the nature of the weld they tested or the nature of the testing. Even with two of the same materials it's very possible to design a joint that doesn't work very well in the real world.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#38

Post by patentatt » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:14 PM UTC

14 wrote: post #32

gattilorenz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be impossible, then, to replace the lenses with new ones (in case of scratches, or with eyesight changes over time)?

I suppose but personally I have only ever heard of people changing the entire frames with the glass. What a wasteful time we live in.

I’ve tried to change lenses while keeping frames, most manufacturers make it pretty hard to do so. Some don’t sell blank lenses without frames, and others have such fragmented and changing product lines that lenses aren’t available 1-2 years after original purchase. And to be fair, frames aren’t really all that durable anyways, and for something used daily it’s not all that wasteful to replace them every once in a while

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#39

Post by willyt » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

katakuchi wrote: post #10

Interesting. I wonder if an architect/civil engineer could explain what the implications would be of the application of this technology in the field of construction?

Steel structures deflect a lot more than glass and buildings are built to relatively loose tolerances. E.g. skyscrapers have flexible neoprene gaskets between glass cladding panels to allow for a few mm of structural deflection due loads caused by wind, thermal, floor loadings and construction settlement. To give a rough idea, if you take a point on the top of a 250m skyscraper it could be anywhere within a ~300mm diameter circle due to these loads.

So while I'm not 100% sure, it sounds like this technique would be more useful for product design scale stuff like phones, nano machines, miniaturised optical systems.

Re: Welding breakthrough could transform manufacturing

#40

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #36

toomuchtodo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it saves human time, it’s not wasteful. Time is the ultimate nonrenewable resource, while we are awash in materials.

Being wasteful with materials may cost future humans a lot of time.

Trade offs. Don’t optimize prematurely.