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The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

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Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#91
post #10

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

Another difference is that slavery was not an issue for them.

As in "You don’t know it, but you’re working for Facebook. For free."[1]?

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/07...

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#92
post #45

VOC (Dutch East India Company) was more powerful than most nations at the time. I asked this question on Quora once and got interesting answers [0]. VOC was an incredible enterprise, and there are a few today too, imo, they exist as conglomerates (Samsung, P&G, Amazon), political entities (CIA, CPC), monopolies (Maersk, Google), syndicates (DeBeers [1], NeoAristocrats [2], BigPharma, BigBank, BigSugar, BigOil), and c…

The VOC were indeed powerful, but the British East India Company was another level entirely. And the reasons why are quite interesting. Here's Niall Ferguson's explanation - Formally, the directors of the East India Company (EIC) in London controlled a substantial part of the trade between India and western Europe. In reality, as the records of over 4,500 voyages by Company traders show, ship’s captains often made il…

This is not Ferguson's research. He reports on this research in his book -- though the citation is not very prominent. It is from a book by Erikson, Between Monopoly and Free Trade, and an article by Erikson and Bearman, Malfeasance and the Foundation of Global Trade

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#94
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically speaking some of today's big companies are branches of the government too.

Not really, what you see rather is Crony capitalism which is when government and large corporations work together to further their interests, often in what should be considered an illegal way.

The problem is that the wealthy people are the one's who govern. (they define what is and what isn't legal)

This is interconnected and to change it would mean to break it up somehow.

Therefor you'd need to change the premise that "wealth is power" which is a basic equation of our global system since centuries.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#95
post #75
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another reference point, an annual salary for low-to-medium skilled labour in mid-17th century Holland was around 100 to 200 guilders, which would be about 20 million USD according to the implied "Infl. Adjusted" conversion in the article (upon which the entire premise of the article rests).

I think the best measure would be what percentage of the total world's wealth (valuation?) does a company represent at some point.

Does this mean that total wealth stays the same though time?

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#96
post #37

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

Was the VOC a branch of the Dutch government, or was the Dutch government a branch of the VOC? The Dutch government was extremely trade-oriented during the 17th century, and the army would be deployed to protect the trade interests of the VOC.

The real innovation of the VOC was how they financed things. Prior to the VOC exploration was funded by monarchs. The VOC brought in the concept of banking and share holding. Later on this spawned things like risk management and the insurance industry.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one?

Blackwater/Xe/Academi/whatever they will whitewash their name to next.

Mercenary outfits are by definition not part of the government. That's what makes them mercenaries.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#98
post #48

VOC (Dutch East India Company) was more powerful than most nations at the time. I asked this question on Quora once and got interesting answers [0]. VOC was an incredible enterprise, and there are a few today too, imo, they exist as conglomerates (Samsung, P&G, Amazon), political entities (CIA, CPC), monopolies (Maersk, Google), syndicates (DeBeers [1], NeoAristocrats [2], BigPharma, BigBank, BigSugar, BigOil), and c…

> VOC was an incredible enterprise It's easy to be incredible on the backs and dead bodies of slaves...

Seems like a very naive point of view.

At that time and place almost all societies had slaves or similar. The VOC was part of a cultural change in the world that ultimately led to the abolishment of slavery.

Slavery was certainly not the reason why they were successful.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#99
post #89
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck estimating both 17th-century world wealth in Dutch guilders and 21st-century world wealth in USD, both within an order of magnitude. That's at leasts several months, if not years worth of research work in there.

Oh I'm sure it's a lot of work. But that's the whole point right? Getting a proper answer. Guesstimates and half calculations are also imprecise enough to make such articles basically just an exercise in imagination rather than an accurate representation of the facts.

There is a tremendous amount of work by economists measuring these things, which is why this article is so irritating.

The point that the Dutch were an economic superpower in the 17th century is not off base: they were only country to maintain colonies in North & South America, Africa and Asia.

The point that the Dutch East India Company was probably the first company set up under a system of modern financial capitalism, that is a permanently capitalized enterprise with a professional managerial class, separate from tradable claims on the profits of that enterprise, is also well taken.

But this article is a load of twaddle.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#100
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the VOC a branch of the Dutch government, or was the Dutch government a branch of the VOC? The Dutch government was extremely trade-oriented during the 17th century, and the army would be deployed to protect the trade interests of the VOC.

The real innovation of the VOC was how they financed things. Prior to the VOC exploration was funded by monarchs. The VOC brought in the concept of banking and share holding. Later on this spawned things like risk management and the insurance industry.

One of the VOC's innovations was permanent capitalization. Prior to them, spice trading enterprises to the Indies were literally venture capital. Money was put up at the the start of the voyage and all assets were liquidated at the return. The enterprise lasted only as long as the voyage there and back. Some traders started putting together packages of voyages, again always with the stipulation that assets would be liquidated at a certain point. The bold innovation of the VOC was allow shares to be tradable, with claims on profits, and thus the enterprise could be permanently capitalized.
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