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The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

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Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#41
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disney is mostly responsible for copyright in the US being extended to ludicrous lengths. They changed the law so they could keep making money. Also these copyright companies seem to get special treatment by the government. Notice how they are able to use police to "raid" data centres etc.? In the UK a young guy who ran a torrent site was raided by police in the early hours only to be released without charge months l…

disney is a publicly traded company. i own stock in disney :)

The Dutch East India Company was the first company in the history of the world to issue shares to the public. They paid an 18% dividend for over 200 years.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#42
post #28

VOC (Dutch East India Company) was more powerful than most nations at the time. I asked this question on Quora once and got interesting answers [0]. VOC was an incredible enterprise, and there are a few today too, imo, they exist as conglomerates (Samsung, P&G, Amazon), political entities (CIA, CPC), monopolies (Maersk, Google), syndicates (DeBeers [1], NeoAristocrats [2], BigPharma, BigBank, BigSugar, BigOil), and c…

How is P&G a conglomerate? Samsung and most large Japanese companies are conglomerates but P&G does not fit the bill at all.

It was just the wrong word choice. OP is just talking about very large companies in general.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#43
post #22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

disney is a publicly traded company. i own stock in disney :)

The Dutch East India Company was publicly traded too.

It was in fact the first company in the world that was publicly traded at the world's first stock exchange.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article they seem to use the maximum attained market capitalization during its existence indexed to current day dollars.

That's not a good definition of value if you enter into a phase of speculation.

He never said it was a good definition of value.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#45

VOC (Dutch East India Company) was more powerful than most nations at the time. I asked this question on Quora once and got interesting answers [0]. VOC was an incredible enterprise, and there are a few today too, imo, they exist as conglomerates (Samsung, P&G, Amazon), political entities (CIA, CPC), monopolies (Maersk, Google), syndicates (DeBeers [1], NeoAristocrats [2], BigPharma, BigBank, BigSugar, BigOil), and c…

The VOC were indeed powerful, but the British East India Company was another level entirely.

And the reasons why are quite interesting. Here's Niall Ferguson's explanation -

Formally, the directors of the East India Company (EIC) in London controlled a substantial part of the trade between India and western Europe.

In reality, as the records of over 4,500 voyages by Company traders show, ship’s captains often made illicit side trips, buying and selling on their own account. By the late eighteenth century the number of ports in the resulting trade network was more than a hundred, ranging from open emporia such as Madras to regulated markets such as Canton (Guangzhou). In effect, private trading provided the weak links that knitted together otherwise disconnected regional clusters. This network had a life of its own that the Company’s directors in London simply did not control. Indeed, that was one of the keys to the success of the EIC: it was more a network than a hierarchy. Significantly, its Dutch rival banned private trade by its employees. This may explain why it ended up being superseded.

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#46

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

Practically speaking some of today's big companies are branches of the government too.

Not sure why you got down-voted, as I remember that as recently as the early 2010s some US agencies were still involved in industrial espionage on behalf of US companies. From a 2014 Snowden interview [1]:

> The U.S. National Security Agency is involved in industrial espionage and will grab any intelligence it can get its hands on regardless of its value to national security, former NSA contractor Edward Snowden told a German TV network. (...) “If there’s information at Siemens that’s beneficial to U.S. national interests - even if it doesn’t have anything to do with national security - then they’ll take that information nevertheless,” Snowden said, according to ARD, which recorded the interview in Russia where he has claimed asylum.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-security-snowden-germany/...

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#47

Dutch East India Company had its own colonies and army. Practically speaking, it was a branch of the Dutch government, so comparing it to the contemporary companies doesn't make much sense.

There were other private colonial enterprises - British India Company, Kingdom of Sarawak, Kongo Abir Company.

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abir_Congo_Company

3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Sarawak

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#48

VOC (Dutch East India Company) was more powerful than most nations at the time. I asked this question on Quora once and got interesting answers [0]. VOC was an incredible enterprise, and there are a few today too, imo, they exist as conglomerates (Samsung, P&G, Amazon), political entities (CIA, CPC), monopolies (Maersk, Google), syndicates (DeBeers [1], NeoAristocrats [2], BigPharma, BigBank, BigSugar, BigOil), and c…

>VOC was an incredible enterprise

It's easy to be incredible on the backs and dead bodies of slaves...

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#49
post #35

Also mentioned: The south sea company was basically a huge banking bubble scam. It is quite an interesting tale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1kndKWJKB8

Hello? Bitcoin? Is that you? Nah just a ghost of poor banking decisions past. Spooky.

Although many can see Bitcoin as a scam, I think the South Sea bubble is in a different league altogether. Financial schemes such as introducing crazy loans, coupled with the (essentially) full backing of the government at the time lured in even people like Isaac Newton. Bitcoin in comparison does not even match the hype the South Sea had at the time (nor will it have the power to carry a nation in debt for more than 100 years)

Re: The Dutch East India Co was richer than Apple, Google, Facebook combined (2017)

#50
I wonder how the British East India Company compared to its Dutch equivalent. I am too tired to write a comprehensive post right now, but with the Opium Wars and the monopoly on the Indian Subcontinent, I think the British EIC would be more powerful (and wealthier) than the Dutch EIC. Here are some (probably low quality) sources [0], [1]. Will write a better comment tomorrow after work.

[0] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Dut... [1] https://indonesiaexpat.biz/travel/history-culture/colonies-d...

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