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The Age of Robot Farmers

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Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#21

Post by devoply »

choonway wrote: post #20

The limiting factor of automation is still, the amount of human labor you still need. Can it be reduced to zero? Why do you even need the farmers if that's the case?

Considering how abusive the human relationship is with the land and the animals, why don't we have an agricultural revolution and creates 10s of millions of jobs for farmers? Modern human imagination is so constrained to think that this is impossible. But really it's just political and as easy to do as it is to automate millions of jobs away.

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#22

Post by ggm »

AJ007 wrote: post #18
ggm wrote: post #16

I'm solely in the consumer camp: I don't produce food, I buy and eat it (I don't buy and sell it either). I think we've been trained to assume cheap food is a goal. I think the goal should have been clearer: cheap enough but not too cheap The economics here are complicated. It benefits me to have cheap food, but if the cost is ag workers with systematic health problems, low income, farmers going bust, prison labor be…

The bigger long term issues to cheap food are water and loss of arable land from salinity caused by irrigation or saltwater incursion. Even without global warming, it doesn't look good. In terms of sustainable locally grown food, most places are not going to be eating fresh produce year round.

I guess it depends how big a circle you draw around local.

For me, I prefer near, but I'll settle for in-state and ultimately in-country as "local"

Buying phillipine bananas and pineapples and thai rice, I want to understand why. We can grow all of these locally and very probably sustainably. If its food-as-aid purchase for regional trade, I can be there. But the assumption "because its cheaper" feels to me wrong. I suspect the reason the shops are selling imported bananas is not because of aid to emerging economies: its because they make more profit.

(to be clear, I'm in Australia. I believe that California (for instance) which was a food garden faces pretty intractable water issues. As do the various people who depend on the River Jordan. Australia has water issues too, but its more about equitable distribution than a complete lack of irrigation sources. We're not facing starvation due to lack of locally grown food in the 10-20 year horizon, climate change permitting. If you want to racionate to 'thats the bigger problem' I won't disagree)

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#23

Post by chongli »

ggm wrote: post #16

I'm solely in the consumer camp: I don't produce food, I buy and eat it (I don't buy and sell it either). I think we've been trained to assume cheap food is a goal. I think the goal should have been clearer: cheap enough but not too cheap The economics here are complicated. It benefits me to have cheap food, but if the cost is ag workers with systematic health problems, low income, farmers going bust, prison labor be…

The price of strawberries needs to reflect the real costs here which include paying pickers a living wage.

Replacing pickers by robots only masks the problem

What? If we had robot pickers then maybe we could get strawberries to be cheap enough that everyone could afford them, not just those who are wealthy enough to not worry about such jobs.

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#24

Post by vsef »

ggm wrote: post #22
AJ007 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger long term issues to cheap food are water and loss of arable land from salinity caused by irrigation or saltwater incursion. Even without global warming, it doesn't look good. In terms of sustainable locally grown food, most places are not going to be eating fresh produce year round.

I guess it depends how big a circle you draw around local. For me, I prefer near, but I'll settle for in-state and ultimately in-country as "local" Buying phillipine bananas and pineapples and thai rice, I want to understand why. We can grow all of these locally and very probably sustainably. If its food-as-aid purchase for regional trade, I can be there. But the assumption "because its cheaper" feels to me wrong. I…

California's water situation is not a "complete lack of irrigation sources", this is a big misperception.

There are big issues around distribution, water rights, allocation for farming vs urban areas, which crops to grow, and conflicts over distribution of water from (wetter) north to (drier) south and use of Colorado river water.

But it's not about to "face starvation due to lack of locally grown food", the situation is roughly comparable to Australia.

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#25

Post by econ102fail »

brianpgordon wrote: post #10

> In 2011, for example, Georgia enacted a strict immigration law that targeted undocumented workers and their employers. Later that year, the state reportedly lost eleven thousand crop workers. To fill the gap, officials established a program whereby nonviolent offenders nearing the end of their prison terms could do paid farmwork. The program had few takers, and many prisoners and probationers who did try it walked…

That says something that people will rather go back to prison than work the job.

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#27

Post by jhoechtl »

I was wondering wheather a free supply of food enabled by robots doing the job, and free basic housing could solve some of mankinds problems. Is there literature on the topic, had anyone done the maths?

Utopia or feasible, that's what I am wondering.

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#28

Post by thinkloop »

jhoechtl wrote: post #27

I was wondering wheather a free supply of food enabled by robots doing the job, and free basic housing could solve some of mankinds problems. Is there literature on the topic, had anyone done the maths? Utopia or feasible, that's what I am wondering.

The issue in the under-developed world is lack of capital, machines, technology, etc. This is more of that. If that's the problem you were hinting at, I don't think this would be the solution.

Re: The Age of Robot Farmers

#29

Post by thinkloop »

brianpgordon wrote: post #10

> In 2011, for example, Georgia enacted a strict immigration law that targeted undocumented workers and their employers. Later that year, the state reportedly lost eleven thousand crop workers. To fill the gap, officials established a program whereby nonviolent offenders nearing the end of their prison terms could do paid farmwork. The program had few takers, and many prisoners and probationers who did try it walked…

> Georgia farmers lost more than a hundred and twenty million dollars

> H-2A workers are still among the lowest paid in the country

Why don't they pay labour $100M?

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